.380 ACP isn’t so bad after all

[C-grunt]

I think the personal experience offered by most here has been as a first responder or medical provider, not a “gunfighter”. The experience I relayed was from my time as a stateside Paramedic and SWAT/SRT/TEMS Medic. In my time as a “gunfighter” (cringe; please don’t call me that…. I don’t work for BCM), there is no .380 experience to relay. I wonder why that might be?

As I’ve said before, I carry a 42 sometimes. Shot it under nods a couple nights ago, side by side with a J frame, even. Enjoy your 42, but be aware that you are carrying it because it is light, small, soft-recoiling, low-report and convenient, not because subsonic 80 and 90 gr bullets are optimal for incapacitating 2m tall bipeds.

We need a like button on this forum.

I too am giving my experience with 380 as a street cop in a major metro city over the last nearly 15 years. My experience with the 380 has been poor. Expanded hollow points offer very poor penetration and FMJ or non expanded hollow points will offer decent penetration as long as you dont hit large bones or have to shoot through a barrier first.

Recently had a road rage shooting with a 380. FMJ bullet went through the side window of the car and hit the victim in the head. Bullet lodged in the skull. Paramedics initially thought it was just a cut on his head from the car crash afterwards.

A buddy who became a DV detective was working a shooting where a guy tried to shoot his girlfriend as she was pulling out of the driveway. 380 FMJ rounds shot throught he back windshield failed to penetrate the head rests of the front and rear seats.

My personal deep concealment and pocket carry gun is a J frame 38 Special. It has similar or slightly less muzzle velocity of a 380 but does so with a significantly heavier bullet. In my experience with snubby 38 shootings is that expansion of hollow points doesnt happen or is limited much of the time. However you will still get good penetration and the ability to break or go through large bones. It behaves very similar to the other duty rounds.

[202]

I carry either a Sig P365X, a Glock 43X or a Glock 26 every day in Florida.
With so many small 9mm handguns available, I don’t know why anyone would carry a 380acp handgun. But to each his own….

[utahjeepr]

http://shootingthebull.net/blog/an-a...topping-power/

Pretty good op/ed there.

I don't get the heat over this. ALL handguns are a compromise. .380 is weak compared to common "duty loads", but pistol size, recoil, comfort and familiarity, and the willingness and/ability to practice meaningfully with the firearm can make it an attractive option for some.

My wife carries a .380 (Sig 238). I would love to put a 9mm on her, but she is not comfortable with the 9mms of similar size. It's a compromise that puts a gun on her that she is comfortable with and can shoot effectively. If .380 is too much of a compromise for you, don't carry one. But it is a choice that some are comfortable making.

As long as one makes an educated decision, I got no problem with .380. It beats hell out of a rape whistle and "tiger keys".

[hextall]

I was shot in the face and shoulder on a traffic stop exactly 3 years and 1 day ago.. I'm going on my 8th surgery to repair the facial damage. After I get my bottom teeth in March I'm returning to full duty and waiting for the upper teeth in November. That said, It's all about placement, surgeon said it was a miracle that I didn't die. I honestly never thought I was going to die, but sitting there spitting out bone and teeth is a shitty situation...

[gunnerblue]

We need a like button on this forum.

I too am giving my experience with 380 as a street cop in a major metro city over the last nearly 15 years. My experience with the 380 has been poor. Expanded hollow points offer very poor penetration and FMJ or non expanded hollow points will offer decent penetration as long as you dont hit large bones or have to shoot through a barrier first.

Recently had a road rage shooting with a 380. FMJ bullet went through the side window of the car and hit the victim in the head. Bullet lodged in the skull. Paramedics initially thought it was just a cut on his head from the car crash afterwards.

A buddy who became a DV detective was working a shooting where a guy tried to shoot his girlfriend as she was pulling out of the driveway. 380 FMJ rounds shot throught he back windshield failed to penetrate the head rests of the front and rear seats.

My personal deep concealment and pocket carry gun is a J frame 38 Special. It has similar or slightly less muzzle velocity of a 380 but does so with a significantly heavier bullet. In my experience with snubby 38 shootings is that expansion of hollow points doesnt happen or is limited much of the time. However you will still get good penetration and the ability to break or go through large bones. It behaves very similar to the other duty rounds.

Does this include the ammo developed specifically for snubbies such as the 135 gr. short-barrel Gold Dot?

[WillBrink]

Pretty good op/ed there.

I don't get the heat over this. ALL handguns are a compromise. .380 is weak compared to common "duty loads", but pistol size, recoil, comfort and familiarity, and the willingness and/ability to practice meaningfully with the firearm can make it an attractive option for some.

My wife carries a .380 (Sig 238). I would love to put a 9mm on her, but she is not comfortable with the 9mms of similar size. It's a compromise that puts a gun on her that she is comfortable with and can shoot effectively. If .380 is too much of a compromise for you, don't carry one. But it is a choice that some are comfortable making.

As long as one makes an educated decision, I got no problem with .380. It beats hell out of a rape whistle and "tiger keys".

Agreed, but most don't make an educated decision on .380, and ignore the advice of people who literally do the terminal ballistics testing for major fed orgs, PDs, and advising against .380, the long line of LEOs who see its poor performance in the real world, the various med pros who say same, etc, in favor of bad intel on the topic via some YT vid or bad articles etc. No one disagrees the .380 is better than throwing rocks and using harsh language, but that's about it. Personally, found .380 very snappy to shoot with tiny sub compact pistols, and if pistol large enough to lesson recoil, the size of various quality 9mm pistols that offer minimal/similar recoil.

I was shot in the face and shoulder on a traffic stop exactly 3 years and 1 day ago.. I'm going on my 8th surgery to repair the facial damage. After I get my bottom teeth in March I'm returning to full duty and waiting for the upper teeth in November. That said, It's all about placement, surgeon said it was a miracle that I didn't die. I honestly never thought I was going to die, but sitting there spitting out bone and teeth is a shitty situation...

That's terrible! Unless we have another member with similar experience, you have mentioned that in other threads I recall. Was the caliber identified? It's amazing how there's accounts of various duty loads in 9, .40, and .45, deflecting off human skulls depending on the angle. Obviously you put a .22, even a pellet gun has done it, through someones eye socket, and they're likely done for.

[juliet9]

I rest my case. You offered nothing but noise to the signal of this thread.

Case? You had a case? I think the statement "a well placed .380 is far superior to a miss with anything else" makes any "case" you had moot. Having taught hundreds of woman shooters, I found that a lower recoil sidearm allowed them to perform at a higher level versus higher recoils weapons. This holds true particularly in the case of small/subcompact pistols.

You remind me of the kid in the scene in Pulp Fiction when he comes out of the bathroom with his Taurus .357 and empties his weapon on Jules and Vincent, yet missed with every round. A miss is a miss. Perhaps he would have hit something with a .380!

I think the personal experience offered by most here has been as a first responder or medical provider, not a “gunfighter”. The experience I relayed was from my time as a stateside Paramedic and SWAT/SRT/TEMS Medic. In my time as a “gunfighter” (cringe; please don’t call me that…. I don’t work for BCM), there is no .380 experience to relay. I wonder why that might be?

As I’ve said before, I carry a 42 sometimes. Shot it under nods a couple nights ago, side by side with a J frame, even. Enjoy your 42, but be aware that you are carrying it because it is light, small, soft-recoiling, low-report and convenient, not because subsonic 80 and 90 gr bullets are optimal for incapacitating 2m tall bipeds.

You can debate the temperature outside, but it ain't gonna change it. I now exactly why I carry it, it is difficult to hide weapons when wearing board shorts and t-shirts and 200 degrees outside. FYI, the gunfighter comment was tongue in cheek, as that how is some participants come across.

Everyone KNOWS .380 is a lesser round than .45, 9mm, .357, etc., etc. We KNOW it is not the ideal self defense cartridge. But, the blanket dismissal as a useless cartridge by some is asinine. As stated above, twice now, I have found women love the lesser recoil and handiness of the pistols that shoot it. I would rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

[C-grunt]

Does this include the ammo developed specifically for snubbies such as the 135 gr. short-barrel Gold Dot?

That's my issued 38 round but I cant recall ever seeing it in a shooting. In all 38 Special really isnt that common to see dudes shot with. Ive probably seen more suicides and accidental shootings with it than offensive shots.

The only snubby 38 shot I remember having actual decent expansion was one of those old school LSWCHP. Couldnt tell you which loading or which weight. Though I think they pretty much all are 158 grain right? That was a suicide where a lady shot herself center chest. The expanded bullet was half way out the skin on her back and the ER doctors basically just popped it out.

Had another suicide where a guy shot himself through the side of the head. He was using some sort of newer model hollow point. Bullet went all the way through the head, through two interior walls and smashed a bathroom tile. It expanded a little but probably under a half inch total. It looked like a newer design with the pre cut pedals but I left the scene before detectives showed up, so I didnt get a real good look at it or see what other ammo was in the gun.

[robbins290]

If one person where to run with 380, which would be the best candidate? My FIL will be running a Shield EZ in 380 in a few weeks. I am going to get him some defense ammo. I have no idea which ones to get.

[georgeib]

If one person where to run with 380, which would be the best candidate? My FIL will be running a Shield EZ in 380 in a few weeks. I am going to get him some defense ammo. I have no idea which ones to get.

Either the Lehigh Defence or the Underwood 380 Extreme Penetrator would be best.