3 position forced reset trigger wars heat up

[okie]

I've never used a bump stock, and never had much interest in these triggers. Until a friend bought a couple and had me install them. We took it to the range, where I proceeded to dump a full mag at around 800 rpm. I was completely blown away. So much so, in fact, that I went home and immediately ordered one. I've it tuned to around 650 rpm and it's impressive. Haven't played with it enough to see how hard it is to fire single rounds, but I know it's not super easy to do so.

Now that they're releasing this new model, I may break down and order one. I imagine they'll be around $600, so 50% more than the current version, but the ability to fire single rounds easily would be a worthwhile upgrade IMO.

Either way, I don't see this as more than a toy as I don't feel the reliability is anywhere near established enough to see it otherwise. Too many moving parts, and too immature a design. Currently sits in a dedicated lower.

Yea I don't much like the idea of using the inertia from the bolt to force the trigger to reset, if I'm understanding the principle correctly. I figure you could probably choke one by simply deliberately pulling hard on the trigger, which I guess would result in the bolt not going into battery?

I think the binary triggers have much more promise from several perspectives. One, they can't be banned under the same definition as a bump stock, whereas these forced reset triggers operate under the same principle, in that the shooter isn't deliberately pulling the trigger each time. And two, with binary triggers you can learn to pull and release in a rhythm with the recoil, and that enables you to develop muscle memory to where you can keep a super tight cone at pretty high rates of fire. You can also sustain that for as long as you want, vs. an MG you have to fire the burst and then stop and reacquire your sight picture and everything. Whereas with a binary trigger you never lose it to begin with. I don't know if those principles would apply to guns with actual recoil, but man it sure did work well with paintball guns. I could honestly see binary triggers becoming an actual improvement over full auto, whereas forced reset seems to be nothing more than a different take on bumpstocks. Which is perfectly fine, of course, just not my bag.

[georgeib]

Yea I don't much like the idea of using the inertia from the bolt to force the trigger to reset, if I'm understanding the principle correctly. I figure you could probably choke one by simply deliberately pulling hard on the trigger, which I guess would result in the bolt not going into battery?

I think the binary triggers have much more promise from several perspectives. One, they can't be banned under the same definition as a bump stock, whereas these forced reset triggers operate under the same principle, in that the shooter isn't deliberately pulling the trigger each time. And two, with binary triggers you can learn to pull and release in a rhythm with the recoil, and that enables you to develop muscle memory to where you can keep a super tight cone at pretty high rates of fire. You can also sustain that for as long as you want, vs. an MG you have to fire the burst and then stop and reacquire your sight picture and everything. Whereas with a binary trigger you never lose it to begin with. I don't know if those principles would apply to guns with actual recoil, but man it sure did work well with paintball guns. I could honestly see binary triggers becoming an actual improvement over full auto, whereas forced reset seems to be nothing more than a different take on bumpstocks. Which is perfectly fine, of course, just not my bag.

I tend to agree with your thinking, though I will say that in practice there are some nuances. For example, in my case with this trigger, I have it installed in a dedicated lower that I primarily use with a particular upper that has a very effective brake/comp on it made by PWS (FSC556), which used to to come on the M249. With the cyclic rate reduced to around 650 rpm and with the muzzle device, I'm able to keep an entire off hand mag dump in probably a 6" diameter at 15 yards, which is the distance at which I've been testing. I will need to specifically test and measure a few spreads to see how consistent I am. Point being that in this particular sample, it feels impressively controllable.

I will be able to say more in a few dozen mags.

[VIP3R 237]

Franklin armory just announced a glock BFS-3 today. Range ceilings across the nation are cowering in fear

[okie]

Franklin armory just announced a glock BFS-3 today. Range ceilings across the nation are cowering in fear

That's actually pretty dangerous if someone isn't well trained to handle it.

[K_K]

That's actually pretty dangerous if someone isn't well trained to handle it.

just get a endo tac brace stock for the gen 3 model and you are good to go.

[SteyrAUG]

But when you look at the law, it does not equal a machine gun. One round per one trigger pull.

ATF will just change their own definitions...again. Not like THEY have to follow the rules, they simply write the rules.

The notification letter will begin with "ATF technology branch has determined..."

[MistWolf]

One round per one trigger pull.

The law states one round per trigger action. The press is one action. The release is another, separate action. Therefore pressing and releasing the trigger is two separate actions. This is how a binary trigger, which fires one round when pressed (one trigger action) and one round when released (one trigger action), is legal. It fires one round every trigger action.

A standard semi-auto trigger fires 1 round when the trigger is pressed and not when released. It only fires one round every other trigger action.

A forced reset trigger is just like a standard semi-auto trigger with the exception of the forced reset. It only fires one round when pressed (one trigger action) but not on the release. It fires only one round every other trigger action.

[Adrenaline_6]

Hmmm...I posted when it first came out why they didn't design a 3 position on/off option into the FRT. Well...there you go. Good job Rare Breed.

[okie]

The law states one round per trigger action. The press is one action. The release is another, separate action. Therefore pressing and releasing the trigger is two separate actions. This is how a binary trigger, which fires one round when pressed (one trigger action) and one round when released (one trigger action), is legal. It fires one round every trigger action.

A standard semi-auto trigger fires 1 round when the trigger is pressed and not when released. It only fires one round every other trigger action.

A forced reset trigger is just like a standard semi-auto trigger with the exception of the forced reset. It only fires one round when pressed (one trigger action) but not on the release. It fires only one round every other trigger action.

The devil in the details is they'll make the same lame argument they did with bumpstocks that the subsequent pulls aren't deliberate, and therefore don't count.

[georgeib]

The devil in the details is they'll make the same lame argument they did with bumpstocks that the subsequent pulls aren't deliberate, and therefore don't count.

The counter argument is that the law doesn't saw anything about the actions of the trigger needing to be deliberate. Only that no more than one round per action of the trigger can be fired.