Shot Show 2022

[Alaskapopo]

357 SIG was developed to cover a gap between the 9mm and the 40. Which it did for a brief period of time until 9mm +P+ hit the scene. Much in the same way the 30 Super Carry is trying to cover the gap between 380 and 9mm. I loved the 357 SIG for a brief period of time but eventually went back to 9mm. As a side note I also think the branding, defining it as a SIG cartridge, also did not help its overall adoption. If they had called it the 9mm Magnum it would have grown some legs. Nobody (except Glock) wants to cross brand their models based on caliber.

With respect no the 357 was not meant to fill the gap between the 9mm and 40. It was marketed to give 357 magnum performance into a semi auto pistol. The Evan Marshall research was popular back then and the idea is it would sell. In reality its more like a 9mm +p++.
Pat

[SteyrAUG]

Just a minor correction the fastest 40s did out run the heavy bullet 357 sigs (135 grain 40 vs 150 grain 357 sig) in fact if bullet weight was kept equal the 40 had a slight edge comparing 150 grain bullets to 155 grain bullets.
Pat

I though the .357 SIG had a lot more powder charge behind it?

Wasn't that one of the factors that led to LE adopting the .40 because .357 SIG was more prone to over penetration?

[Alaskapopo]

A bit less case capacity actually due to the bottle neck. I used to be a big 357 Sig fan back in the day. Accurate round but not that much more powerful than a hot 9mm.

[Alaskapopo]

Also the 357 Sig came after the 40. It never really had that many departments like the 40 did. As for over
Penetration not anymore than any other service caliber depending on bullet type used of course.

[pinzgauer]

With respect no the 357 was not meant to fill the gap between the 9mm and 40. It was marketed to give 357 magnum performance into a semi auto pistol.

Which was an admirable goal, I spent a decade trying to do just that in the late 70s and early 80s with 38 super and then later 41 AE.

When 10 mm went more mainstream in the mid-80s and Delta Elites fell from favor I picked one up and shot 10 mm since.

I was looking for 357 performance in a commander size package. 357 SIG delivers that in a 9 mm pistol format, which is pretty cool.

I do believe the mainstreaming of quality +P 9 mm loadings made the step up to 357 sig not worth the change for most. Especially agencies.

[WillBrink]

So to start 9mm +P+ existed long before anyone dreamed up .357 SIG. Then .357SIG has much higher muzzle velocities than .40, the fastest .40 can't catch the slowest .357 SIG. Additionally HK and several other manufacturers chambered for the .357 SIG.

It was the fact that the Glock in .40 was adopted in huge numbers that let it own the market over .357 SIG and 10mm and not the actual ballistic performance. They were also all three being driven on the civilian side my a 10 round magazine limitation law.

As you said, that i was gonna say, 9mm +p+ existed a long time before the .357 Sig. The .357 Sig was not designed to fill any gaps per se. There's a reason it, like some others that had a short run, are called a "solution in search of a problem." It didn't solve any problems, didn't fill any gaps, and rode on the .357 Mags rep as a man stopper, which didn't apply to modern JHPs. I believe the only place .357 Sig remained in use, perhaps still in use (?) was among state troopers as it did perform well against intermediate barriers that troopers more likely to deal with (e.g. car windshields etc) compared to other rnds tested at the time.

[Alaskapopo]

Which was an admirable goal, I spent a decade trying to do just that in the late 70s and early 80s with 38 super and then later 41 AE.

When 10 mm went more mainstream in the mid-80s and Delta Elites fell from favor I picked one up and shot 10 mm since.

I was looking for 357 performance in a commander size package. 357 SIG delivers that in a 9 mm pistol format, which is pretty cool.

I do believe the mainstreaming of quality +P 9 mm loadings made the step up to 357 sig not worth the change for most. Especially agencies.

What made me drop the caliber was comparing the 357 Sig at the time to the 9mm rounds and only seeing about 100 to 150 fps speed advantage and no real penetration or expansion advantage at that point I dropped it and went 9mm. There was also annoying problems like less feed reliability due to the bottle neck design in some platforms despite advertising to the contrary. The round was prone to nose diving on the feed ramp. There were also issues with bullet set back due to limited neck tension.

[SteyrAUG]

What made me drop the caliber was comparing the 357 Sig at the time to the 9mm rounds and only seeing about 100 to 150 fps speed advantage and no real penetration or expansion advantage at that point I dropped it and went 9mm. There was also annoying problems like less feed reliability due to the bottle neck design in some platforms despite advertising to the contrary. The round was prone to nose diving on the feed ramp. There were also issues with bullet set back due to limited neck tension.

Thanks for the clarifications. What of the often touted "same ballistics as the .357 magnum but in an auto cartridge?" Was that just manufacturer BS?

I only have one, a USP C, and while it's a bit snappy, I enjoy shooting the round. That said, for EDC when you factor in quality defensive ammo, I'm a 9mm guy most of the time. The only reason I explored .45s, 10mm and other was due to the Clinton ban on magazine capacity for handguns.

[Alaskapopo]

Thanks for the clarifications. What of the often touted "same ballistics as the .357 magnum but in an auto cartridge?" Was that just manufacturer BS?

I only have one, a USP C, and while it's a bit snappy, I enjoy shooting the round. That said, for EDC when you factor in quality defensive ammo, I'm a 9mm guy most of the time. The only reason I explored .45s, 10mm and other was due to the Clinton ban on magazine capacity for handguns.

I was young and dumb and fell for the bigger or faster is always better thing back then. I do like the 10mm for bear defense for similar reasons I like the 9mm for personal defense. Compared to big bore revolvers I shoot it better and faster and it can do well with good shot placement. Don’t care for the 10mm as a carry gun for non animals though.

[Exiledviking]

Thanks for the clarifications. What of the often touted "same ballistics as the .357 magnum but in an auto cartridge?" Was that just manufacturer BS?

That was primarily BS as the real-world velocity numbers for the .357 SIG didn't come close to the .357 Mag. Like AlaskaPopo said, the real-world velocity of the SIG cartridge was only 100 to 150 (at best) fps better than the 9mm. Once I saw those numbers myself, I gave up on that round.
FWIW, I had a G31 that was a tack driver (I also had a P229, but I only regret [slightly] selling the G31).

S&W should have marketed their .356 TSW round better...