Am I the only one starting to prefer iron sights?

[okie]

An advantage of a red dot is the large eye box. If you are using a rear iron sight and always viewing the dot through the aperture you lose this advantage. Maybe try running without the rear sight and see how fast you can get on ready-up drills and odd positions, then put the rear iron back on and see if you can match those times.

I don't notice the rear sight either way. I shoot with both eyes open, always. Rifles, pistols...red dots, irons, magnified optics. Always both eyes open.

[LowSpeed_HighDrag]

M4C continues to devolve into TOS.

[Five_Point_Five_Six]

RDS>Iron sights. I can't imagine why anyone would run fixed irons and an absolute cowitnessed red dot and think you're using the red dot to it's full potential. If you're able to get through several mags without realizing your red dot isn't powered on, you're not using the red dot properly.

Red dot. Focus on the target and superimpose the dot where you want your bullet to go, never needing to take your eyes off the threat. It's the more efficient aiming method, and it's how our eyes and brain wants to process information. The only purpose irons have is as a backup in the extremely unlikely event where your optic or battery fails in the middle of the extremely unlikely event that you need your gun to defend yourself in the first place.

The old Boomer philosophy about learning how to shoot irons before using an optic isn't relevant anymore. There's no reason to learn irons first. My kids learned on a M&P 15-22 with an Aimpoint T1 and my oldest is a better shooter than most of the old farts I've seen at the range shooting irons. Having to tell Wilford Brimley looking dudes that I'm uninterested in their opinions and I'm just there to shoot with my family is what pushed me to stop using the public range close to my house and find a secluded spot in the woods 45 minutes away.

[Alpha-17]

In 2022, this is a thread that exists. Wow.


And that's coming from someone who primarily enjoys shooting MilSurps with all manner of iron sights.

[ndmiller]

How are you with irons when you need to go with white light? What if you are going from full daylight outside to very dimly lit inside?

Can you give us some idea of your experience and training?



How are you making sure it is not the parallax?

I was specifically talking about me at the range practicing prone, kneeling and standing positions, the fundamentals of shooting with irons and getting back to basics nothing more. My comment about MRO versus irons at 100 is based on my experience, again nothing more. I can shoot solid MOA prone at 100 with irons if I do my job, but the groups open up somewhat with MRO on the same rifle. Could be parallax, my astigmatism, the ammo I'm using, incorrect tension or a loose mount, I really don't know. I assumed the 2MOA dot was less precise, sorry for that assumption.

[Inkslinger]

Have you ever timed it?

Sure. Along time ago when I got my first RDS. Nowadays with my older eyes, I bet the difference is even more pronounced. Also, when I added a RMR to a pistol. I don’t remember the times, but it was dramatic.

[okie]

M4C continues to devolve into TOS.

Well with low effort posts like this, I guess it's no wonder.

[okie]

RDS>Iron sights. I can't imagine why anyone would run fixed irons and an absolute cowitnessed red dot and think you're using the red dot to it's full potential. If you're able to get through several mags without realizing your red dot isn't powered on, you're not using the red dot properly.

Red dot. Focus on the target and superimpose the dot where you want your bullet to go, never needing to take your eyes off the threat. It's the more efficient aiming method, and it's how our eyes and brain wants to process information. The only purpose irons have is as a backup in the extremely unlikely event where your optic or battery fails in the middle of the extremely unlikely event that you need your gun to defend yourself in the first place.

The old Boomer philosophy about learning how to shoot irons before using an optic isn't relevant anymore. There's no reason to learn irons first. My kids learned on a M&P 15-22 with an Aimpoint T1 and my oldest is a better shooter than most of the old farts I've seen at the range shooting irons. Having to tell Wilford Brimley looking dudes that I'm uninterested in their opinions and I'm just there to shoot with my family is what pushed me to stop using the public range close to my house and find a secluded spot in the woods 45 minutes away.

Or maybe I just inadvertently got really good at using irons since they were cowitnessed?

I also said precisely nothing whatsoever about learning to shoot with irons. I got a red dot when I was in my early 20s when I got my first AR and never looked back, so effectively I did pretty much learn defensive shooting with an RDS from day one. Before that my only experience with irons was a 22 I got at about 10, and a shotgun I got at about 14.

[georgeib]

Target focus vs front sight focus. There's really no realistic comparison. Though, I suppose you could say this a bit like comparing modern infantry rifles to WW1 Enfields, and trying to sell the idea that the WW1 weapon is somehow superior.

Another silly thread about stuff that has long since been laid to rest.

[kerplode]

I have garbage eyesight, so I always get better results with a RDS/LVPO. I still try to shoot irons occasionally to maintain some small degree of proficiency, but the results are never pretty.

FWIW, Due to the 2MOA dot on the MRO, my irons shoot better groups as well.

How are you making sure it is not the parallax?

I'll second that. The one MRO in my fleet has TERRIBLE parallax. If I'm not super careful with my head position, I get huge groups.