Page 10 of 23 FirstFirst ... 8910111220 ... LastLast
Results 91 to 100 of 223

Thread: Undersea Cable Cut in Norway

  1. #91
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    17,383
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by georgeib View Post
    "It's a lot easier to fool someone, than to convince them they have been fooled."

    That said, I think he has a valid point regarding the "exercises" being a front for moving troops into the area. Not that I don't understand why the Russians would want to do so confronted with NATO's encroachment on their country and all. They're saber rattling for the same reason a rattlesnake does. "Stay Away or I'll kick your ass!" I do think they're just showing their insecurity though. They certainly want no fight with us. The real question is whether "we" are looking for a fight with them...
    Nope. The Russians are like a wolf eating a carcass and growling at you. I really wonder about peoples…. I don’t know how else to put it, intelligence? The Russians want Ukraine. They said they want Ukraine. They’re putting troops on the border to Ukraine. They’re already in Ukraine. Maybe if they hadn’t invaded Ukraine once before, maybe you could say well maybe they won’t do at this time.

    And this crap about NATO threatening Russia, where the heck does that come from? The Soviets, the Russian Empire, the power that is residing in Moscow has always had designs on controlling Central and Eastern Europe. The fact of these countries don’t wanna be under that control means nothing? Maybe the southern states to just give in to the coastal elites, because you know that’s the way things should be.

    Who lost the Cold War by the way?

    Who is the threat to Russia? NATO? You mean the alliance that couldn’t tackle Afghanistan? Exactly who here thinks that Leopard and M1 tanks are going to be taking snap shots outside the Kremlin? Are you people listening to yourselves?

    Russia is the rapist next door that is fingerbanging your wife, and has their junk out and people here are like.” Oh, he feels threatened because I have a BB gun and are protesting.

    Sure, I’m the crazy one
    Last edited by FromMyColdDeadHand; 01-27-22 at 21:37.
    The Second Amendment ACKNOWLEDGES our right to own and bear arms that are in common use that can be used for lawful purposes. The arms can be restricted ONLY if subject to historical analogue from the founding era or is dangerous (unsafe) AND unusual.

    It's that simple.

  2. #92
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    3,097
    Feedback Score
    2 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by FromMyColdDeadHand View Post
    Nope. The Russians are like a wolf eating a carcass and growling at you. I really wonder about peoples…. I don’t know how else to put it, intelligence? The Russians want Ukraine. They said they want Ukraine. They’re putting troops on the border to Ukraine. They’re already in Ukraine. Maybe if they hadn’t invaded Ukraine once before, maybe you could say well maybe they won’t do at this time.

    And this crap about NATO threatening Russia, where the heck does that come from? The Soviets, the Russian Empire, the power that is residing in Moscow has always had designs on controlling Central and Eastern Europe. The fact of these countries don’t wanna be under that control means nothing? Maybe the southern states to just give in to the coastal elites, because you know that’s the way things should be.

    Who lost the Cold War by the way?

    Who is the threat to Russia? NATO? You mean the alliance that couldn’t tackle Afghanistan? Exactly who here thinks that Leopard and M1 tanks are going to be taking snap shots outside the Kremlin? Are you people listening to yourselves?

    Russia is the rapist next door that is fingerbanging your wife, and has their junk out and people here are like.” Oh, he feels threatened because I have a BB gun and are protesting.

    Sure, I’m the crazy one
    Bro, I realize you've been taught to hate and distrust Russians your whole life, and that they've done plenty of things to justify that. I'm not sure I can disagree with you on that.

    But if you can trust Russians to do one thing, it's to look after their best interests. And you can trust NATO to do one thing, and it's to do the same. The issue is that NATO doesn't like that Russia isn't playing to their tune. Whether right or wrong, that is the case. There really is no true right and wrong in international politics any more; there are only interests. It's simply in NATO's interests to weaken Russia, weaken Putin, and install a crony in his place that serves their interests. Surely that's not a difficult thing to imagine.

    I don't believe that Putin thinks that NATO will actually attack. It's all posturing for the sake of internal propaganda purposes. And partially because he wants to show he ain't no punk.

    Also surely, you're not so naive as to think everything NATO does is on the up and up, and that everything Russia does is sourced from the pit of hell. Politics are never that black and white, and probably never have been. Russia wants Ukraine, yes. But not to the degree that they're willing to sacrifice decades of stability in the region by taking it forcefully. Even if I were to grant you that the Russians are irredeemably evil, and that the NATO leadership is full of nothing but the purest of intentions, saying that the Russians are stupid enough to forcefully take Ukraine is a bridge too far.

    Look at the above CNN report. The Ukrainian president told Bidet that he was full of crap for suggesting that Russians were coming. But you find yourself agreeing with the propaganda these thieves and liars are feeding you. Come on.
    Last edited by georgeib; 01-27-22 at 22:22.
    “You have made us for yourself, O Lord, and our heart is restless until it rests in you.” -Augustine

  3. #93
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    17,383
    Feedback Score
    0
    This is not exactly Hitler on one side and Stalin on the other. I understand the Russians historical paranoia. I’m not against Russians, I’m against Putin and an autocratic despot again ruling over Central and Eastern Europe. The very fact that Putin and the Russian state media are lying about what NATO is doing should give you pause. NATO can’t do a road trip, let alone a invasion against an armed major power.


    Like I said, is it so impossible to think the Russians are going to invade, if nothing more to get a land route to Chromeo, considering that they’ve already invaded Ukraine once. And this goes towards a long history of US buddy ****ing people. So much for the treaty we signed when Ukraine gave up their nukes.
    The Second Amendment ACKNOWLEDGES our right to own and bear arms that are in common use that can be used for lawful purposes. The arms can be restricted ONLY if subject to historical analogue from the founding era or is dangerous (unsafe) AND unusual.

    It's that simple.

  4. #94
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    3,913
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by FromMyColdDeadHand View Post
    But when did we control Canada and starve 3 million of them?
    Are we massing troops to invade Mexico?
    Did we take the St. Lawrence Sea Way with Blackwater and Company?
    ]
    I am well aware of the long and I mean really long history of Russia and Ukraine.

    I don't believe what Stalin did in the Ukraine is germane to what is going on today, other than it makes Ukrainians nervous.

    Putin and Russia don't like the eastward expansion of NATO. I understand why they don't like it. I just wish the people banging the war drums for a second would understand it, Give Putin the assurance he needs that no new countries will be admitted to NATO. I believe thaqt would calm things down.

    NATO had a mission, and 5 years after the collapse of the USSR, the USA should have said that we were leaving NATO both in terms of troops and money. Our side won, yeah. Time to stop wasting the American peoples money

  5. #95
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    1,705
    Feedback Score
    2 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by georgeib View Post
    Do the Russians really benefit from a military annexation of Ukraine, or will the fallout be worse than any potential gain? What position would it put them in politically after doing something like that?
    Actually, I think Russia has a lot to gain perception-wise from militarily invading. Putin's plan, since the 90s, has been restoring Russian power and prestige. Chechnia, Georgia, and Crimea have all been stepping stones along that path. Gobbling up a portion of territory (territory that Russia has a more or less legitimate, historic claim to) in direct and open opposition to the US and NATO is the next step. It shows they're back, and willing to go toe to toe with the West. The new border, whatever it turns out to be, will likely help them with future dealings with NATO, as it pushes any future NATO border further West, and may prolong/prevent Ukraine from being allowed in. It also helps them vis a vie with China, as it pushes Moscow, not Bejing, to the forefront of the "anti-West" crowd, and potentially can attract more allies (or at least customers) for folks looking to stick it to the West. All of this for a, probably, brief military jaunt into a country that has been unable to retake a few border territories over the last 6-7 years.

    What will this cost them? Diplomatic isolation, at least for those that are in lockstep with the West, a few more sanctions, and that's about it. No real change, as I doubt Germany or France will stop sucking in Russian oil and gas. They're already hit with sanctions, and they don't seem to care. They might face some minor Western military assistance, but its doubtful to be significant. They know we're a paper tiger at this point, and Biden openly told them that anything short of total annexation would likely be fine. So, the question is, why not go on a military adventure?

    Basically, both NATO and Russia are acting like imperial powers, so why wouldn't we see a return to imperial power plays. Yes, part of the problem could be solved by NATO and Russia formally recognizing the neutrality of Ukraine, and staying out of the region, but both sides have violated such agreements before. Unfortunately, it's rare that imperial power plays are solved by honest negotiations when more is on the line than just the prima facia issue. Both sides want a political and military win to make up for past defeats and losses (Russia, the Cold War, NATO, Afghanistan), and both have more at stake than where the lines on the map are drawn.
    It's f*****g great, putting holes in people, all the time, and it just puts 'em down mate, they drop like sacks of s**t when they go down with this.
    --British veteran of the Ukraine War, discussing the FN SCAR H.

  6. #96
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    17,383
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by yoni View Post
    I am well aware of the long and I mean really long history of Russia and Ukraine.

    I don't believe what Stalin did in the Ukraine is germane to what is going on today, other than it makes Ukrainians nervous.

    Putin and Russia don't like the eastward expansion of NATO. I understand why they don't like it. I just wish the people banging the war drums for a second would understand it, Give Putin the assurance he needs that no new countries will be admitted to NATO. I believe thaqt would calm things down.

    NATO had a mission, and 5 years after the collapse of the USSR, the USA should have said that we were leaving NATO both in terms of troops and money. Our side won, yeah. Time to stop wasting the American peoples money
    Sorry, I forgot that history ended in 1991. No more need for weapons, diplomacy, or sides? The daughter struggles of the Peace of Westphalia are over. Yeah! The problem is the Russians and the Germans are tied at the gas nipple- Disraeli would be concerned…

    Win a war and leave the Europeans to their own devices- like that never went badly.

    I don’t know why you think that the Russians concerns are any less relevant than Ukrainians? The Russians concerns for security are based on Napoleon and Hitler, which kind of bracket the Ukrainian massacres.

    There is no end to power struggles, you can ‘win’ a war if you willing to go full salt-Carthage/boots-on-the-throat- but there is no ‘end’.
    The Second Amendment ACKNOWLEDGES our right to own and bear arms that are in common use that can be used for lawful purposes. The arms can be restricted ONLY if subject to historical analogue from the founding era or is dangerous (unsafe) AND unusual.

    It's that simple.

  7. #97
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    3,913
    Feedback Score
    0
    I still think we could avoid war, with some common sense.

    I believe that NATO will not fight this war because they are tied to the Russian oil and gas.

    So then it is left to the USA, alone. More American lives wasted and tax money.

    For Ukraine to join NATO it takes a vote of all NATO countries and 2/3 support in the Senate. I dont think this is possible to acheive.

    So give Putin what he wants a guarantee we will not force Ukraine into NATO.

  8. #98
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    9,904
    Feedback Score
    16 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by yoni View Post
    I still think we could avoid war, with some common sense.

    I believe that NATO will not fight this war because they are tied to the Russian oil and gas.

    So then it is left to the USA, alone. More American lives wasted and tax money.

    For Ukraine to join NATO it takes a vote of all NATO countries and 2/3 support in the Senate. I dont think this is possible to acheive.

    So give Putin what he wants a guarantee we will not force Ukraine into NATO.
    Why would Putin take that guarantee, when he can just take Ukraine and slam the door shut in NATO’s face?

    As for common sense, that usually goes out the window when power, land, natural resources and money are on the table. History is full to the brim with examples.
    What if this whole crusade's a charade?
    And behind it all there's a price to be paid
    For the blood which we dine
    Justified in the name of the holy and the divine…

  9. #99
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    3,913
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by glocktogo View Post
    Why would Putin take that guarantee, when he can just take Ukraine and slam the door shut in NATO’s face?
    Because Putin is smart, no very smart. He knows Sun Tzu was correct, that if you can win the war without firing a shot that is a greater victory than having to actually fight the war to win.

  10. #100
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Posts
    6,917
    Feedback Score
    23 (100%)
    Any Monty Python fans? The conversation between Biden and Ukrainian president is like a classic scene from Monty Python:
    B: "I'm here to rescue you!"
    U: "But I don't need rescuing!"
    B:. "Yes you do, you're about to be invaded!"
    U: "No I'm not!"
    B: "Yes you are!"

Page 10 of 23 FirstFirst ... 8910111220 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •