Fraud prevention tips for buying MG from out of state individual?

[TED]

I posted a WTB post looking for an M10 or M11 9mm transferable SMG.

A member of the uzitalk board, mastermind33, contacted me with an offer.

They only joined in DEC 2021 and only have one thread, 13 post, and no feedback. Then again I also have a low post count and no feedback there although I have been around for a few years.

I DO have extensive references available, positive feedback on 3 other sites including around 80 gunbroker transactions as both buyer and seller.

This will not be my first machinegun. It would however be my first purchasing from an out of state individual.

I have asked to see a copy of the form 4 and the guns serial number so I can see that they match and so that I can send the payment only to the address listed on the form.

What other precautions do you recommend. Unfortunately if I understand correctly I can not just call the ATF and ask who the gun is registered to, or can I?

If he has a way to accept credit cards that would be fine I am willing to put it on card and pay the card processing fee for the peace of mind. However, it is most likely that they do not have a way to do that or are unwilling which I do understand. I myself have no way to accept cards, I am not a business of any kind just a regular joe so why would I.

Thoughts, ideas, suggestions?

Thanks.

TED (uzitalk and m4carbine.net) aka tsh77769 (ar15.com and others) aka AlaskanKnight (GB)

[georgeib]

1. I would have ask to see the gun over live video, like Zoom, Google Duo or a similar video conferencing service including the serial numbers, and any blemishes to match photos provided.

2. I would insist that the gun and money is held in escrow, and I get to pick the holding FFL, and I would then proceed to call local FFLs to decide which one to use.

[Bret]

If he has a way to accept credit cards that would be fine I am willing to put it on card and pay the card processing fee for the peace of mind. However, it is most likely that they do not have a way to do that or are unwilling which I do understand. I myself have no way to accept cards, I am not a business of any kind just a regular joe so why would I.

Since it's an out of state transaction, it will have to go via Form 4 transfer from the seller to your FFL/SOT. Someone will have to pay $200 for this. When I bought my M16 from an individual this first transfer cost $200.

If he can take credit cards, then it pretty much has to be a business. If it's a business, then he'd have to have and FFL/SOT. It doesn't matter anyway because the first transfer is going to take longer than your credit card company would allow for the dispute anyway. Typically that's only a couple of months.

TED (uzitalk and m4carbine.net) aka tsh77769 (ar15.com and others) aka AlaskanKnight (GB)[/QUOTE]

1. I would have ask to see the gun over live video, like Zoom, Google Duo or a similar video conferencing service including the serial numbers, and any blemishes to match photos provided.

Great idea.

2. I would insist that the gun and money is held in escrow,

The buyer can ask, but very few sellers are willing to do that as they want their money right now.

and I get to pick the holding FFL, and I would then proceed to call local FFLs to decide which one to use.

This would always be the case as the holding FFL/SOT would have to be in the buyer's state. Since the first transfer is a Form 4, both the seller and your FFL/SOT have to sign it. My FFL/SOT had never done an incoming Form 4 transfer. I literally had to
fill out the form because the seller wasn't sure how to do it, send it to the seller to sign, get it back from the seller, have my FFL/SOT sign it and send it back to the seller so he could mail it in along with the $200.
If you buy from an individual out of state, a significant discount should be involved because of the two $200 transfers involved and the extra time it's going to take.

[Ready.Fire.Aim]

Ask them to send a photo holding the MG in their left hand only. Something a scammer stealing photos can’t do. However I like the idea posted earlier of a video phone call even better.

Have them send you a photo of SN and form 4 verifying they match.

I always talk to them on the phone. You can usually tell rather quickly if they are legitimate.

If it is a $$$$$$ purchase, then fly out, meet them, see the gun, pay them. FWIW, I’ve never done this.

FYI I bought a Pelican rifle case for shipping MG. It has my address permanently marked. I always pay the shipping costs for them to use my case and locks.
Only costs about $85 to send them my case.
I box up the case and most even reuse the box with the case.

Good luck!
RFA

[SteyrAUG]

Partial payment and then use the serial number to confirm NFA branch is processing the Form 4, final payment when it arrives at your FFL / SOT and you have personally inspected it. There are also plenty of escrow services that will help you with such transactions and will protect both parties.