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Thread: Am I missing something? Is ACOG my only choice here?

  1. #1
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    Am I missing something? Is ACOG my only choice here?

    First off, the answer to my inquiry does not include the TA33. I don't get along with those, and I have owned three. I have had it with them.

    I am putting together a lightish utility/HD carbine. 16" Wilson Combat Ranger barrel, Faxon Streamline Carbon Fiber HG. I am not going "Project Featherweight"; I just want to get the weight down and have as much versatility as I can squeeze out of the accessories. I am not sure if I want to go the magnifier route. Right now I am testing an Aimpoint/Unity, 3XMag-1 magnifier setup on a Noveske 14.5" barrel, and there is no weight savings there. It weighs more than a TA11 with a decent aftermarket mount.

    I am thinking I might put on a fixed power scope as the main optic, an offset RDS (T-2, MRO, or RMR) for closer range and passive NODs, and perhaps a Streamlight TLR-8 (light and vis laser) for identification at night, pointing, aiming with NODs, whatever. With all that aiming hardware I hardly feel like I need BUIS, but I'll probably put a set on anyway. Total weight for this package (not including BUIS) might be as low as 16 oz.

    It is the fixed optic I get hung up on. My default is usually an ACOG. I have a bunch, mostly TA11Js, but also TA44s, TA45s, a couple of TA33s that I have no use for, and a TA50. But, I have no real experience with the famous TA31.

    At first I thought I would put a TA50 on the build. It's 3X and has even crappier eye relief (1.4", at least on paper) than the TA31. The eye box is pretty tight, but usable. I have shot the VTAC Barrier on the clock against a bunch of guys running RDS and usually done pretty well, usually in the top three. It is not that I am all that good; the simple cross reticle (it's an older model TA50 with just a crosshair like the old LAPD model) with a 50 yard zero is pretty much point and click out to about 240 yards. When I am done, people always want to look at the sight, and then they see the eye relief and run for the hills.

    I am trying to figure out if the TA31 is worth putting on this rifle. It's 4X instead of 3X, has that wide field of view, and might have slightly better eye relief and eye box. The weight penalty would be just shy of 4 oz. Does anyone out there have experience with the TA50 and TA31 to give a comparison as to which has better actual eye relief and eye box?

    And, does anyone want to suggest a lightweight fixed power scope, 3X to 6X, and not a TA33, that might serve this purpose? I would like it to be as rugged as an ACOG, but that's just crazy.
    'That whole effort was held together by sweat, shame, and a tiny bit of pride.' -- Son of Commander Paisley

  2. #2
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    I can't use a AGOG due to crappy eyes, the PA SLX 3 power is really good for the money but made in China, the GLX 2 power also is very good and made in the Philippines with I believe Japanese glass. If the China thing doesn't bother you the 3 power is under $300 and comes with a mount but uses the ACOG mount also.




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    “The Trump Doctrine is ‘We’re America, Bitch.’ That’s the Trump Doctrine.”

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  3. #3
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    I always get lost on the ACOG models that everyone seems to know by heart. I wonder where the TA01NSN falls in your rankings? I just bought one. It's a great price and has the no nonsense crosshair reticle for m4.
    "You people have too much time on your hands." - scottryan

  4. #4
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    The Nightforce NX8 1-8 is 17oz, and you can get 30mm 1.5" height mounts in the 4oz range.
    Total weight 21oz.
    Significant performance gain in every aspect over an ACOG.
    Very easy to attach an RDS to the scope tube/mount, 12:00 on the forward ring is my preferred placement for use with NODs.
    Jack Leuba
    Director of Sales
    Knight's Armament Company
    jleuba@knightarmco.com

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amicus View Post
    First off, the answer to my inquiry does not include the TA33. I don't get along with those, and I have owned three. I have had it with them.

    I am putting together a lightish utility/HD carbine. 16" Wilson Combat Ranger barrel, Faxon Streamline Carbon Fiber HG. I am not going "Project Featherweight"; I just want to get the weight down and have as much versatility as I can squeeze out of the accessories. I am not sure if I want to go the magnifier route. Right now I am testing an Aimpoint/Unity, 3XMag-1 magnifier setup on a Noveske 14.5" barrel, and there is no weight savings there. It weighs more than a TA11 with a decent aftermarket mount.

    I am thinking I might put on a fixed power scope as the main optic, an offset RDS (T-2, MRO, or RMR) for closer range and passive NODs, and perhaps a Streamlight TLR-8 (light and vis laser) for identification at night, pointing, aiming with NODs, whatever. With all that aiming hardware I hardly feel like I need BUIS, but I'll probably put a set on anyway. Total weight for this package (not including BUIS) might be as low as 16 oz.

    It is the fixed optic I get hung up on. My default is usually an ACOG. I have a bunch, mostly TA11Js, but also TA44s, TA45s, a couple of TA33s that I have no use for, and a TA50. But, I have no real experience with the famous TA31.

    At first I thought I would put a TA50 on the build. It's 3X and has even crappier eye relief (1.4", at least on paper) than the TA31. The eye box is pretty tight, but usable. I have shot the VTAC Barrier on the clock against a bunch of guys running RDS and usually done pretty well, usually in the top three. It is not that I am all that good; the simple cross reticle (it's an older model TA50 with just a crosshair like the old LAPD model) with a 50 yard zero is pretty much point and click out to about 240 yards. When I am done, people always want to look at the sight, and then they see the eye relief and run for the hills.

    I am trying to figure out if the TA31 is worth putting on this rifle. It's 4X instead of 3X, has that wide field of view, and might have slightly better eye relief and eye box. The weight penalty would be just shy of 4 oz. Does anyone out there have experience with the TA50 and TA31 to give a comparison as to which has better actual eye relief and eye box?

    And, does anyone want to suggest a lightweight fixed power scope, 3X to 6X, and not a TA33, that might serve this purpose? I would like it to be as rugged as an ACOG, but that's just crazy.
    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    I always get lost on the ACOG models that everyone seems to know by heart. I wonder where the TA01NSN falls in your rankings? I just bought one. It's a great price and has the no nonsense crosshair reticle for m4.
    TA31 and TA01 NSN 4x have the same short eye relief (1.5”). Big difference is the fiber optic illumination, which the 01 did not have, a new-ish reticle, and lack of built-in BUIS. TA50 and TA33 are also very short.

    TA11 has more eye relief and is 3.5x. If I was buying an ACOG today, it would be a 3.5x model. There’s a LED 3.5x model, as well. Any more magnification within that line and you either get short eye relief (but great FOV), or a heavy pig meant for a belt-fed gun. Going down in magnification, the 1.5x models have more going for them than the other <3.5x ones.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    The Nightforce NX8 1-8 is 17oz, and you can get 30mm 1.5" height mounts in the 4oz range.
    Total weight 21oz.
    Significant performance gain in every aspect over an ACOG.
    Very easy to attach an RDS to the scope tube/mount, 12:00 on the forward ring is my preferred placement for use with NODs.
    That's the only LBGTO I'd consider. Pappabear runs his on his Tan KAC SR-15 dealy. The only gripe is the massive reticle (too thick) which occludes my view on full magnification.
    "You people have too much time on your hands." - scottryan

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack7.62 View Post
    I can't use a AGOG due to crappy eyes, the PA SLX 3 power is really good for the money but made in China, the GLX 2 power also is very good and made in the Philippines with I believe Japanese glass. If the China thing doesn't bother you the 3 power is under $300 and comes with a mount but uses the ACOG mount also.




    4
    mack7.32:

    I realize I have 1st World Problems when it comes to this stuff. Out of the plethora of choices, I just have to want something from the niche that isn't quite perfect for my tastes.

    As for PA: I think that Marshall Lerner has done really fantastic things with that company. I bought a little "Aimpoint Clone" from him when he got his second shipment from Chicomland and was advertising on TOS. The first one had some problems, and Marshall replaced it. I put it on a variety of rifles with nary a hiccup. That is, until I put it on a Remington 870 and that shotgun killed the little clone after three shots. Believe me, I got my money's worth out of that purchase. The development of the ACSS reticles and the branching out into friendlier, but higher priced, regimes (e.g., Philippines, Japan) was a good idea too.

    I have two concerns with using PA products for this build:

    1. While I don't plan on punishing this rifle, I do want a high level of reliability and QC. I am not sure that PA fits the bill. I am not saying they don't have that, I am just saying I don't feel assured that they do.
    2. Looking at their offerings, most of the PA scopes don't have the weight profile I am looking for.

    Good suggestion though. I am going to have to look at PA again. But, I have developed a real aversion to buying things from Chicomland. I recently bought a Holosun because I wanted to see what the fuss was about. The sight is OK, but I hate the idea that I gave some money to those jokers.
    'That whole effort was held together by sweat, shame, and a tiny bit of pride.' -- Son of Commander Paisley

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    That's the only LBGTO I'd consider. Pappabear runs his on his Tan KAC SR-15 dealy. The only gripe is the massive reticle (too thick) which occludes my view on full magnification.
    I'm really looking forward to the reticle update.
    As it is, I don't mind the MRAD reticle too much, since I'm rarely shooting at anything super small at 75-150, and past that I'm using the descending stadia for aiming anyway. The ring is a little tighter than I would prefer (I get what you're saying about target coverage), but it's still way better than the reticles in the COGs (except for the crosshair models). If I was in charge of NF I'd change some stuff with the reticle, but the updated reticle looks like it will give me what I really care about, and my current one will probably stay on my 11.5 gun.
    Jack Leuba
    Director of Sales
    Knight's Armament Company
    jleuba@knightarmco.com

  9. #9
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    We can definitely get out farther more reliably with the NF compared to the COGs due to both additional magnification and dial up capability. But at about 750, you almost want some wind so the target is a hold off in one of the gaps in the reticle.
    "You people have too much time on your hands." - scottryan

  10. #10
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    If you don't want a LPVO, and are looking for a lightweight fixed 3x, Primary Arms is about to release their new SLX 3x Micro Prism sight, and i've heard a lot of good things from early testers. Should be released within a few days i believe. That looks like it's going to be an awesome lightweight fixed 3x with etched reticle, that doesn't take up much rail space. Might be worth considering

    https://www.primaryarms.com/primary-...1-announcement

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