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Thread: Am I missing something? Is ACOG my only choice here?

  1. #11
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    Yikes! Failure2stop and markm are here. Now it's a party.

    I really appreciate all the responses from you guys because it helps me to clarify my thinking, both in my reading your notes and in my replies.

    Sorry to bore you, but here is how I got to this point.

    Once, I believed that any "serious" carbine should have: an optic, BUIS, a light, and a sling. I called rails "trash collectors" because they seemed to encourage people to add on every little do-dad they could. You've seen rifles like this: SWAT/Warrant teams with everything under the sun mounted, and that was before NODs became more available.

    I ran into one guy (nice guy), who was doing some testing and sighting in with M4s (the real deal, fun switch, non-transferrable dealer sample). Here's the list of mounted accessories: NF ATACR 1-8X in a Badger Ordnance mount, MAWL, PEQ-15, SureFire Scout with tape switch, BUIS, and an Aimpoint T-2 in an offset mount. I am pretty sure the lasers were not the civilian versions. That's a lot of sighting options. It is also a lot of weight.

    I am also weight averse, due to congenital problems with my left shoulder and hip. I think about what I can support, a lot.

    Finally, I can get to the point. Nothing here is particularly insightful or profound. When the newer 1-6x, 8x, 10x LPVOs came along, Some of the selling points were:

    1. You can use them at low power like a red dot! [Well, maybe. People have shown that LPVOs can function as fast at red dots when you are standing and shooting at IPSC targets. Now try doing that in non-optimum positions, with NODs.]

    2. With a First Focal Plane, the reticle is consistent through the range of magnification! [Yes, but like most people I am shooting a LPVO at minimum or maximum magnification; I don't stop at 4.5X to admire the view. In fact, the usable reticle for a FFP scope is often very different depending on magnification. And, at that point, it's almost like using two different scopes. See where I am going here?]

    3. The power ring has a throw lever for smooth and easy transitions! [One fixed power and one red dot: no need for a lever, but you have to cant the rifle a bit for close shots with the RDS, and you don't have to take one hand off the rifle to make adjustments.]

    I know that some of the better LPVOs are now down around 17 oz., without mount. I now have three of them: NX8, Kahles K16i, and Leupold Mark 6 (now discontinued). My testing with those got stalled and I haven't really figured out what they are good for in my world. Put them on Scalarworks LEAP mounts and you have a package that runs about 24 oz. I tried the Aero Precision lightweight mounts, but there was a problem: I think that as the mount flexed during shooting, it would gradually rotate the scope in the rings. I am not sure of that, but it's a hypothesis.

    So, I guess I can get a fixed optic and NODs-friendly RDS setup for a considerable weight advantage. About eight to 12 oz. less than a lightweight LPVO. But to get that, I have to live with a 3X or 4X scope, with crappy eye relief.

    The conundrum continues.
    'That whole effort was held together by sweat, shame, and a tiny bit of pride.' -- Son of Commander Paisley

  2. #12
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    I am afraid to ask markm what "LBGTO" stands for.
    'That whole effort was held together by sweat, shame, and a tiny bit of pride.' -- Son of Commander Paisley

  3. #13
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    [QUOTE=Failure2Stop;3012828]I'm really looking forward to the reticle update.


    Hello, any details on the new reticle? Perhaps similar to the ATACR 1-8's new reticle with the enlarged center ring? Thanks

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amicus View Post
    I am afraid to ask markm what "LBGTO" stands for.
    The LVPO acronym is annoying to me as overuse of "first responder". I just gayed it up to match its gayness.
    "What would a $2,000 Geissele Super Duty do that a $500 PSA door buster on Black Friday couldn't do?" - Stopsign32v

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by B Cart View Post
    If you don't want a LPVO, and are looking for a lightweight fixed 3x, Primary Arms is about to release their new SLX 3x Micro Prism sight, and i've heard a lot of good things from early testers. Should be released within a few days i believe. That looks like it's going to be an awesome lightweight fixed 3x with etched reticle, that doesn't take up much rail space. Might be worth considering
    I'd raise you the new EOtech mini 3x or the Vortex, I hear good things from both.

    @Amicus, anyway you go there is going to be shortfalls, I tend to try and run a little bit of everything on all my AR's because each has its own mission set, nothing is perfect
    Dr. Carter G. Woodson, “History shows that it does not matter who is in power or what revolutionary forces take over the government, those who have not learned to do for themselves and have to depend solely on others never obtain any more rights or privileges in the end than they had in the beginning.”

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    The LVPO acronym is annoying to me as overuse of "first responder". I just gayed it up to match its gayness.
    I kind of suspected that was the meaning.
    'That whole effort was held together by sweat, shame, and a tiny bit of pride.' -- Son of Commander Paisley

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hank6046 View Post
    I'd raise you the new EOtech mini 3x or the Vortex, I hear good things from both.

    @Amicus, anyway you go there is going to be shortfalls, I tend to try and run a little bit of everything on all my AR's because each has its own mission set, nothing is perfect
    Well, you're right, of course. I have probably spent too much time obsessing about whether an extra four ounces was worth another power of magnification (3X to 4X).

    I am going to have to put this aside. Just now I am thinking about the time 15 years ago when I stood at arms length from PJ O'Rourke. We both had our backs to the bar, sipping wine after a Cato Institute meet-and-greet, and I never said a word to him.

    That's not an opportunity I will have again.
    'That whole effort was held together by sweat, shame, and a tiny bit of pride.' -- Son of Commander Paisley

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    The LVPO acronym is annoying to me as overuse of "first responder". I just gayed it up to match its gayness.
    You're killing me! I feel the same way.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by B Cart View Post
    If you don't want a LPVO, and are looking for a lightweight fixed 3x, Primary Arms is about to release their new SLX 3x Micro Prism sight, and i've heard a lot of good things from early testers. Should be released within a few days i believe. That looks like it's going to be an awesome lightweight fixed 3x with etched reticle, that doesn't take up much rail space. Might be worth considering

    https://www.primaryarms.com/primary-...1-announcement
    B Cart:

    Thanks for the heads up on the 3X Microprism scope. Unfortunately, the announcement only has specs for the 1X (unless I missed it somewhere). I am going to assume that it will have some increased weight and a published eye relief at some point in the future, and I will keep an eye out.

    ETA: Sorry, it's mentioned in the 2021 Catalog.
    Last edited by Amicus; 02-17-22 at 17:14. Reason: Didn't check something I should have.
    'That whole effort was held together by sweat, shame, and a tiny bit of pride.' -- Son of Commander Paisley

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amicus View Post
    B Cart:

    Thanks for the heads up on the 3X Microprism scope. Unfortunately, the announcement only has specs for the 1X (unless I missed it somewhere). I am going to assume that it will have some increased weight and a published eye relief at some point in the future, and I will keep an eye out.

    ETA: Sorry, it's mentioned in the 2021 Catalog.
    Dang I just bought a TA-33. I love it so far. But this thing looks interesting.

    What don't you like about the TA-33?

    Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

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