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Thread: Tactical vest options?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defaultmp3 View Post
    Condor is typically hobby grade garbage.

    Where does LAPG claim that their plates are NIJ certified? I don't see that at all.

    I really don't see the point of buying shitty gear unless you're facing an immediate threat and don't have the money. If SHTF and you really need armor, having shitty armor and a shitty PC just means that you're going to be destroying the carrier in short order while suffering in discomfort and with limited mobility, all of which hinder your ability to fight, assuming you don't just ditch it to begin with; these factors also mean that you're far less likely to train in the gear, which again would greatly reduce your effectiveness in kit. There are many other things to invest in, such as food, water/filtration, a good ruck, fuel storage, etc., that would be a far better investment for any serious catastrophic scenario if you're really that financially constrained.
    RMA is a shitty plate now? Please elaborate

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalSpeed View Post
    RMA is a shitty plate now? Please elaborate
    I was referring to the LAPG, but the RMA isn't really a huge step up, IMO, assuming you're looking at the RMA #1155. It's thick, heavy, and single curve. Will it stop the rounds? Sure. But it's also going to limit mobility, make shouldering the gun more difficult, wear you out much faster, and make you a much more obvious target since it's too damn thick to effectively conceal in many situations.

    If you want armor just to have armor, then I wouldn't dissuade you from it, at least it ain't AR500. But if you're trying to be realistic about disaster planning, I would say it's a pretty shit choice. In fact, I'd argue hard armor in general is much less useful than concealable soft armor in any realistic scenario.
    Last edited by Defaultmp3; 03-03-22 at 21:40.
    Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

    老僧三十年前未參禪時、見山是山、見水是水、及至後夾親見知識、有箇入處、見山不是山、見水不是水、而今得箇體歇處、依然見山秪是山、見水秪是水。

    https://www.instagram.com/defaultmp3/

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defaultmp3 View Post
    I was referring to the LAPG, but the RMA isn't really a huge step up, IMO, assuming you're looking at the RMA #1155. It's thick, heavy, and single curve. Will it stop the rounds? Sure. But it's also going to limit mobility, make shouldering the gun more difficult, wear you out much faster, and make you a much more obvious target since it's too damn thick to effectively conceal in many situations.
    What would be some good alternatives without costing a fortune?

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalSpeed View Post
    What would be some good alternatives without costing a fortune?
    Depends on what you consider a fortune, but the blunt fact is, you get what you pay for. You will always have to compromise on some features, maybe multiple, if you're budget constrained.

    Maybe something like the Hesco L210 is worth a look. It is unfortunately still single curve, and is unlikely to adequately defeat many of the common hunting calibers (e.g., .308 Win), but it is fairly cheap, light, thin, and stops both M193 and M855, along with M43 and M67.

    If you're set on being able to defeat larger calibers like .308 Win, you will have to up your price, or else settling for heavy behemoths (which will be relatively thick if ceramic, or else have spall issues and possible M193 defeats if steel), simply due to physics. You'll be looking at Level III+ plates, which will generally be pretty thick, still, but will at least be much lighter (they would almost certainly be UHMWPE plates with a ceramic strike face, the latter needed to gain the '+' for being able to defeat M855, or at least that is the industry norm marking, as 'III+' is nothing more than a marketing term and not something NIJ came up with). Cheaper level III+ plates will generally be in the 300 USD to 400 USD range.

    To be clear, RMA doesn't make bad products per se, it's just simply that for the price point and threat defeats at each level, you're stuck with what current materials science can offer. They make a decent cheap Level IV plates with multi-hit, but because they have a price point to beat, it has to be thick, heavy, and single curve. Pay a few bucks more, and you can get the multicurve, but they'll still be damn heavy and thick. Bump up your prices, and RMA can offer you better stuff, but that's just the nature of armor. There's just no free lunch.
    Last edited by Defaultmp3; 03-03-22 at 21:55.
    Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

    老僧三十年前未參禪時、見山是山、見水是水、及至後夾親見知識、有箇入處、見山不是山、見水不是水、而今得箇體歇處、依然見山秪是山、見水秪是水。

    https://www.instagram.com/defaultmp3/

  5. #25
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    Armor is an investment, if you're not willing to make that investment stick with a chest rig.
    Gettin' down innagrass.
    Let's Go Brandon!

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defaultmp3 View Post
    Depends on what you consider a fortune, but the blunt fact is, you get what you pay for. You will always have to compromise on some features, maybe multiple, if you're budget constrained.

    Maybe something like the Hesco L210 is worth a look. It is unfortunately still single curve, and is unlikely to adequately defeat many of the common hunting calibers (e.g., .308 Win), but it is fairly cheap, light, thin, and stops both M193 and M855, along with M43 and M67.

    If you're set on being able to defeat larger calibers like .308 Win, you will have to up your price, or else settling for heavy behemoths (which will be relatively thick if ceramic, or else have spall issues and possible M193 defeats if steel), simply due to physics. You'll be looking at Level III+ plates, which will generally be pretty thick, still, but will at least be much lighter (they would almost certainly be UHMWPE plates with a ceramic strike face, the latter needed to gain the '+' for being able to defeat M855, or at least that is the industry norm marking, as 'III+' is nothing more than a marketing term and not something NIJ came up with). Cheaper level III+ plates will generally be in the 300 USD to 400 USD range.

    To be clear, RMA doesn't make bad products per se, it's just simply that for the price point and threat defeats at each level, you're stuck with what current materials science can offer. They make a decent cheap Level IV plates with multi-hit, but because they have a price point to beat, it has to be thick, heavy, and single curve. Pay a few bucks more, and you can get the multicurve, but they'll still be damn heavy and thick. Bump up your prices, and RMA can offer you better stuff, but that's just the nature of armor. There's just no free lunch.
    THank you, the Hesco price doesn't seem bad since it's for 2 plates. However, I would prefer something that can also stop .308 and the like.
    I am not considering a steel plate

  7. #27
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    I hate to call anyone out...

    But when you say "LAPG isn't a good plate"; I start to question your perspective. A lot of people get way to tied up in their own brand of plates to acknowledge that there's something better out there for less.

    This dude has a near scientific procedure and has shot 100's of plates. His procedure is VERY close to what the NIJ tests would be and then he goes beyond. I didnt watch the full video but the plat stopped M855A1 from a long barrel bolt action. Hesco L210 won't stop that and they weigh the same.

    Dont take my word for it. Watch the video and decide for yourself if these are "good" plates or not.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIb9_7YkqZQ

    To the OP: If money is no object my dream plates are Shot Stop GT2's. If money is tight the LAPG or BOTACH plates are both good ballistic protection at a very reasonable cost.
    Last edited by turnburglar; 03-04-22 at 01:09.
    Tactical Nylon Micro Brewery

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnburglar View Post
    I hate to call anyone out...

    But when you say "LAPG isn't a good plate"; I start to question your perspective. A lot of people get way to tied up in their own brand of plates to acknowledge that there's something better out there for less.

    This dude has a near scientific procedure and has shot 100's of plates. His procedure is VERY close to what the NIJ tests would be and then he goes beyond. I didnt watch the full video but the plat stopped M855A1 from a long barrel bolt action. Hesco L210 won't stop that and they weigh the same.

    Dont take my word for it. Watch the video and decide for yourself if these are "good" plates or not.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIb9_7YkqZQ

    To the OP: If money is no object my dream plates are Shot Stop GT2's. If money is tight the LAPG or BOTACH plates are both good ballistic protection at a very reasonable cost.
    Skimmed through it, don't see how it's proved it's a good plate. The fact that he's not using a calibrated media already kills a lot of value for me. Beyond that, the M80 BFD is observed to be pretty bad, but this is after multiple hits with other threats, so that throws out any real comparison to how it actually performs against Level III rated plates.

    My argument that it's a shit plate is that it has the 1" foam edges, which significantly reduces coverage (so it's really providing 8" × 9.8" of coverage despite the larger size overall that inhibits mobility), it's single curve, and it's of PRC origin. The last two aren't deal killers in it of themselves (single curves are just a function of price point, there are quality items that come out of the PRC), but with all three combined, I stand by my statement. I am not saying it's a bad deal, you get what you pay for, and armor's not the black magic people make it out to be, but you get what you pay for, and at that price point, I'd consider none of them worthwhile unless you had an immediate threat you absolutely had to account for and are truly unable to afford anything better (I would never call the L210s a good plate for the same reasons I listed above, it's just too much of a compromise to make price point, but at least it has almost full edge-to-edge coverage).
    Last edited by Defaultmp3; 03-04-22 at 07:44.
    Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

    老僧三十年前未參禪時、見山是山、見水是水、及至後夾親見知識、有箇入處、見山不是山、見水不是水、而今得箇體歇處、依然見山秪是山、見水秪是水。

    https://www.instagram.com/defaultmp3/

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defaultmp3 View Post
    Skimmed through it, don't see how it's proved it's a good plate. The fact that he's not using a calibrated media already kills a lot of value for me. Beyond that, the M80 BFD is observed to be pretty bad, but this is after multiple hits with other threats, so that throws out any real comparison to how it actually performs against Level III rated plates.

    My argument that it's a shit plate is that it has the 1" foam edges, which significantly reduces coverage (so it's really providing 8" × 9.8" of coverage despite the larger size overall that inhibits mobility), it's single curve, and it's of PRC origin. The last two aren't deal killers in it of themselves (single curves are just a function of price point, there are quality items that come out of the PRC), but with all three combined, I stand by my statement. I am not saying it's a bad deal, you get what you pay for, and armor's not the black magic people make it out to be, but you get what you pay for, and at that price point, I'd consider none of them worthwhile unless you had an immediate threat you absolutely had to account for and are truly unable to afford anything better (I would never call the L210s a good plate for the same reasons I listed above, it's just too much of a compromise to make price point, but at least it has almost full edge-to-edge coverage).
    Which plates would you consider in this price range or even the next price level?

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalSpeed View Post
    Which plates would you consider in this price range or even the next price level?
    Honestly, I personally would not consider anything under 200 USD a plate, simply because I personally find them too thick and heavy when ceramic, and simply unacceptable when alloy. This is because I prioritize mobility and comfort over raw protection, because those things keep you moving, which I have been taught to be a much more important factor as dismounts than raw coverage and levels of protection. Again, I'll stress, the vast majority of the cheap Level IVs on the market will catch bullets just fine, I just personally assess their impact to my performance to be unacceptable. When I bought my own plates, I specifically prioritized weight and size, and bought the AT Armor STOP-BZs, which will stop various smaller calibers, including M855A1 and 7.62×39mm API, but would not properly defeat M80, simply due to the fact that it's so thin and lightweight that while the bullet is unlikely to penetrate, it would create enough BFD to considered a fail.

    It is in that context that I would first suggest the Hesco M210, even though it does not stop .308 Win/7.62×51mm.

    However, if you must have that level of protection, I would suggest looking at the RMA #1091-1094 (different model numbers for different sizes) or perhaps the Hesco 3410.
    Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

    老僧三十年前未參禪時、見山是山、見水是水、及至後夾親見知識、有箇入處、見山不是山、見水不是水、而今得箇體歇處、依然見山秪是山、見水秪是水。

    https://www.instagram.com/defaultmp3/

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