Early Colt SP1 1967 value 3 prong

[Bret]

who ever said $1200 ,they were selling for that 10 years ago or more and thats just not even close to a realistic number ,and if you find one for that you are doing extremely well , you may prefer 09 Colts and newer , but from a collectors stand point , a SP1 value will only head in one direction ,up , your 09 or newer Colt you wont even break even if you had to sell for at least another 20 years because "it will never be a SP1"

talking about that it has the worst features for a Colt has nothing to do with collectability , and collectability is what drives value ,anyone can go out and purchase a carbon copy brand new Colt , which by the way sell for $1200 , but the old SP1 rifles are scarce and desirable to a group of people that know about collectability , and know that their investment is almost certain

They're not making any more SP1's and that will prevent the value from going down. However, there's just no denying that the features of the newer Colt AR15's do have an impact on the value of the SP1's. Only collectors who have to fill that hole in their collection will pay more for something that is less. Collectors like me who don't have the desire to fill every hole will spend their money on the gun that's closest to the military version. If the SP1's were the closest we could get to a real military full auto M4/M16, they'd be worth far more than they are now.

[hoopharted]

They're not making any more SP1's and that will prevent the value from going down. However, there's just no denying that the features of the newer Colt AR15's do have an impact on the value of the SP1's. Only collectors who have to fill that hole in their collection will pay more for something that is less. Collectors like me who don't have the desire to fill every hole will spend their money on the gun that's closest to the military version. If the SP1's were the closest we could get to a real military full auto M4/M16, they'd be worth far more than they are now.

i respectfully disagree that the features of new Colts affect price of SP1 rifles , for this reason , and understand i am not arguing ,just presenting facts as i know them , lets say there are 40 million AR15 fans out there , its just a number to prove a point , its stuck in my head from the brace issue , 40 million enthusiasts that think SP1 rifles are only worth fair market value of $1200 like some state here in this thread

now lets say out of the entire country there are only 500 people that HAVE to have one for their collection , i personally see maybe 12- 15 SP1 rifles pop up for sale within a year , i do not go actively go looking for every single one , just what i notice and then i pay attention to what they bring , this is where my estimates come from , i do this on allot of weapons so is i see something in the wild i have a some what educated idea what it should go for

so if i am seeing 12-15 a year , so are those 500 people that have to have one , the problem is 500 people with 12-15 rifles to go around , even if 5 of those 500 are competing for one of those 12-15 the price will drive up like the one post just under 4k

these 500 collectors dictate market value , the 40 million that are stuck in 2008 prices have less than zero affect on the price , they by own admission drop out at $1200 , the buying power of 500 over powers the 40 million , every time

my estimate is a average , and it is what i would use , there are special variable's that may cause the vale to dip below the estimate , is it a tent peg , bore shot out , permeant alterations , missing original parts , painted , ect,,, but for the average legit SP1 i stand by my estimate

i eluded to something in my other post , you are looking at the SP1 rifle differently than a collector does , you keep reverting to functionality and features , collectors gravitate to weapons by scarceness , appreciation value , uniqueness , the plus minus attributes of the two groups is like comparing a formula one tire to a WW2 motorcycle tire

[Bret]

I agree that your example is a good one. However, I believe if the SP1 offered features that were not available with subsequent offerings, there would be far more than 500 people wanting those 12-15 rifles. Therefore, the market price of the SP1's would be even higher.

[hoopharted]

i was using 40 mill and 500 just as numbers to throw out , i thought 500 vs 40 mill was dramatic enough , obviously i do not know the exact numbers , , i also said i personally see 12 -15a year , i do not know how many i do not see , i was just illustrating the collection market vs the practical market , practical guys will always undervalue collectability because they are basing their value on their "personal practical needs" and they are use to paying this much for that and thats what things cost , the collector is passionate about their medium , i dont care if its hummels or SP1 rifles , they will place value on more of a "personal want"(not the word or phrase im looking for , im old and my brain locks up,lol) based generally on a number of things that determine the collectability to them , most die hard collectors of firearms generally have way more of what they hold close as collectables than they do of practical , not a hard rule of thumb , but more often then not their collection is vast and they will have a few personal protection firearms

"emotional" , collectors have a emotional factor

[SteyrAUG]

They're not making any more SP1's and that will prevent the value from going down. However, there's just no denying that the features of the newer Colt AR15's do have an impact on the value of the SP1's. Only collectors who have to fill that hole in their collection will pay more for something that is less. Collectors like me who don't have the desire to fill every hole will spend their money on the gun that's closest to the military version. If the SP1's were the closest we could get to a real military full auto M4/M16, they'd be worth far more than they are now.

HK 91s and 93s lack several of the features of G3s and 33s, especially paddle magazine releases. Bayo mounts and grenade launch rings were removed and a completely wonky shelf was created to replace the push pins, but it doesn't seem to have harmed collector values in any way related to those firearms.

Honestly this forum, and the few like it, are probably the only people that understand the Colt had different pin sizes over the years.

Back in the early 80s I owned SP1s and had lots of trigger time on M16A1s and except for the "big screw" I didn't even realize the pin sizes were different. I noticed the rocking sear vs the empty space on a SP1 but that was about it. Oh and SP1s didn't have a forward assist, not that I ever used it on the M16A1.

[Bret]

HK 91s and 93s lack several of the features of G3s and 33s, especially paddle magazine releases. Bayo mounts and grenade launch rings were removed and a completely wonky shelf was created to replace the push pins, but it doesn't seem to have harmed collector values in any way related to those firearms.

The H&K 91's and 93's are the closest thing that you can get to a real G3 and 33. If H&K started importing new complete H&K factory-built rifles that were identical in every respect to G3's and 33's except for the fun switch, it's my contention that it would impact the value of the 91's and 93's. I'm not saying that their values would necessarily go down, but the rate of future increase would certainly be impacted.

Years ago, the only way to get a Yugo SKS was to buy one that Mitchell's had imported. The market price was around $1,200 before the Yugo surplus SKS's were imported. Then all of a sudden you could buy a new old stock military Yugo SKS for under $200. After this happened, I remember seeing a dealer at a gun show who had one of the Mitchell's Yugo SKS on his table for $1,200. Since the new old stock military Yugo SKS's were on multiple other dealer's tables for less than $200, I respectfully asked him what was different about the $1,200 one? He said that it was imported by Mitchell's and was therefore more desirable than the surplus ones being imported. Of course, the reality was that the one he was selling was close in most respects to a real military issue Yugo SKS, but there were some cosmetic differences. Yes, it was imported earlier, but in no way could it be considered more real than an actual Yugo military issued SKS. Reality is that the market had changed on the dealer quickly. He got stuck with something that he paid high dollars for and couldn't accept that he was going to have to take a loss to move it because from a collecting standpoint it was not more desirable than the real deal. If the other new old stock Yugo SKS's were not available, I might have bought the Mitchell imported one he was attempting to sell. However, there was no way that I was going to pay six times more for one that I view as less authentic.

I think one thing that originally made the SP1's desirable was at one time they were as close as you could get to a real full auto M4/M16. Subsequent Colt offerings were neutered versions of what people really wanted. If Colt released them today, they wouldn't sell at all except perhaps to people who have to have one of every Colt variation for their collection.

[Bret]

Double tap.

[SteyrAUG]

The H&K 91's and 93's are the closest thing that you can get to a real G3 and 33. If H&K started importing new complete H&K factory-built rifles that were identical in every respect to G3's and 33's except for the fun switch, it's my contention that it would impact the value of the 91's and 93's. I'm not saying that their values would necessarily go down, but the rate of future increase would certainly be impacted.

Years ago, the only way to get a Yugo SKS was to buy one that Mitchell's had imported. The market price was around $1,200 before the Yugo surplus SKS's were imported. Then all of a sudden you could buy a new old stock military Yugo SKS for under $200. After this happened, I remember seeing a dealer at a gun show who had one of the Mitchell's Yugo SKS on his table for $1,200. Since the new old stock military Yugo SKS's were on multiple other dealer's tables for less than $200, I respectfully asked him what was different about the $1,200 one? He said that it was imported by Mitchell's and was therefore more desirable than the surplus ones being imported. Of course, the reality was that the one he was selling was close in most respects to a real military issue Yugo SKS, but there were some cosmetic differences. Yes, it was imported earlier, but in no way could it be considered more real than an actual Yugo military issued SKS. Reality is that the market had changed on the dealer quickly. He got stuck with something that he paid high dollars for and couldn't accept that he was going to have to take a loss to move it because from a collecting standpoint it was not more desirable than the real deal. If the other new old stock Yugo SKS's were not available, I might have bought the Mitchell imported one he was attempting to sell. However, there was no way that I was going to pay six times more for one that I view as less authentic.

I think one thing that originally made the SP1's desirable was at one time they were as close as you could get to a real full auto M4/M16. Subsequent Colt offerings were neutered versions of what people really wanted. If Colt released them today, they wouldn't sell at all except perhaps to people who have to have one of every Colt variation for their collection.

So you bring up an important point.

There are two Maadi AKMs (not counting dumbhole stock versions), the old early 80s Steyr imports which were selling for about $1,200 when they came in (a LOT of money) and then the Century arms imports that came in late 90s (like those Yugo SKSs) which could be had for about $200.

What that actually did was make a lot of people who previously would never have purchased a Maadi AKM suddenly buy one. It didn't make those older Steyr imports less desirable or less valuable, they are still climbing in price because anyone who knows AKs knows what they are.

Same thing with those Yugo SKS rifles, the Mitchell imports will always be collectible / desirable, the only thing that really changed is the people who were never going to pay $1,200 for a Mitchell decided they would be willing to pay $200 for a CAI import.

You also see this with pre 68 imports. There was a time when CAI was bringing in German K98s for $150 or so and anyone with a brain grabbed one. But if you had a pre 68 import (almost all of which were veteran bring backs because Germany was forced to stop arms production of K98s ) those were selling for big money and will always be worth much more than any that came in after 1986.

There is simply a pedigree factor and that means something to collectors. Now shooters are a different breed. They won't even pay the cost of a Colt official reproduction, they will just buy a M-16 clone that is close enough and that can be done for about $800 for something pretty decent and reliable but with no collector value.

When it comes to vintage Colts, I want the actual rifle they offered at the time, which is the SP1. Now if I'm buying a transferable M-16 then I'm also wanting an original and have little interest in an AR-15 conversion. I'd rather pay the extra money for a factory original.

[SteyrAUG]

DP minimum

[hoopharted]

well stopped into my LGS while heading to my second install today , hadnt been in this shop for about a month , but it was on the way so i stopped , they had a SP1 in , not even a scuff on it ,set your beer down , $4K , i didnt even bother to as any questions like what all was included , but thats what they were asking , and i will be honest , it was too clean , which begs the question was it refinished