Form 1 an 80% lower - manufacturer?

[Renegade]

Reading the two sentences that dmsdog wrote, it's very clear that the thing he made was a firearm from an 80% receiver. He then had to get the Form 1 approved before SBR'ing it. I don't see the confusion.

So you think you will need to submit photos to BATFE to support your claim that you made the thing.

dmsdog - You will need photos of the firearm to submit electronically to the BATFE to support your claim that you made the thing.

OK, two problems - 1) you do not have to claim you made the thing, (in fact you do not have even make it in th first place), 2) and if you did make it, you do not have to submit photos supporting that you made the thing. But if you think you do, good for both of you. Send them pictures of your SBR after you made it if you like. No harm no foul.

[Bret]

As I pointed out above, I had to submit photos of a the manufacturer's markings on a pistol that I was going to SBR, so it's perfectly believable to me that they'd require the same for a receiver made from an 80% receiver. Nobody was talking about sending pictures of a finished SBR, just the receiver before making it.

[Renegade]

Nobody was talking about sending pictures of a finished SBR

Actually that is EXACTLY what he wrote that prompted my reply.

You will need photos of the firearm to submit electronically to the BATFE to support your claim that you made the thing.

"made" is past tense.

made
[mād]
VERB
past tense and past participle of make.

[Bret]

When I read the sentence, it seemed to me he was referencing the receiver mentioned in the prior sentence.

[Renegade]

When I read the sentence, it seemed to me he was referencing the receiver mentioned in the prior sentence.

Well regardless of what he said, and how we read it, I think we agree you do not have to send photos of your SBR after you made it.

[Renegade]

When I read the sentence, it seemed to me he was referencing the receiver mentioned in the prior sentence.

Well regardless of what he said, and how we read it, I think we agree you do not have to send photos of your SBR after you made it.

[DwayneZ]

Best thing to do is, create a single trustee gun trust, mark the 80% with Trust Name, City, State, Cal Multi, then put one and only one item on-per an assignment form (do not use schedule-A), have it notarized. Convert 80% into 100%. After that, continue with whatever BS the ATF wants in forms for a SBR.

But then I ask, ATF Form 4999 (guideline) for a pistol, so why are you doing SBR?

Many of a TFA forms are dumb with their words and verbiage.

If you are doing a PMF, there is no "manufacturer".
Manufacturers are licensed entities, and they are required to mark a "firearm" before it transfers out to an FFL or directly via 4473/nics.
PMF's are "made" by private citizen, no license required.

[Bret]

Best thing to do is, create a single trustee gun trust, mark the 80% with Trust Name, City, State, Cal Multi, then put one and only one item on-per an assignment form (do not use schedule-A), have it notarized. Convert 80% into 100%. After that, continue with whatever BS the ATF wants in forms for a SBR.

I'm trying to grasp how creating a single gun trust would do anything to make a difference in this situation other than to make it more complicated.

[DwayneZ]

I'm trying to grasp how creating a single gun trust would do anything to make a difference in this situation other than to make it more complicated.

More complicated? How so. Super ez to buy a the paperwork for a gun trust, and then turn that into legal entity instrument.

1) if you have more than one trustee on the trust and you park NFA items in the trust, all trustees are subject to the BS prints and BC stuff. Hence, single trustee (you) trust.
2) a PMF can be marked with the name ("maker") of legal entity, no need to put you own name. If you don't care to put you own full name on the NFA item, so be it.
3) trusts also serve as a good way to show your legal ownership of your property, and a date that cannot be challenged.
4) outside of the legal benefits, the trust also a good way to document your property (serial numbers) just in case something gets lost or stolen.

If "you" are not a licensed firearms manufacturer, then there is no "manufacturer" you can list on any of the silly ATF forms. A PMF is made by a private non-licensed maker, aka "you".

If people can't see the benefits of gun trust, so be it.

[Bret]

More complicated? How so. Super ez to buy a the paperwork for a gun trust, and then turn that into legal entity instrument.

No matter how easy that is to do, it's not as easy as filing as an individual. In regard to the topic at hand, it does nothing to resolve the OP's issue.

1) if you have more than one trustee on the trust and you park NFA items in the trust, all trustees are subject to the BS prints and BC stuff. Hence, single trustee (you) trust.

The primary reason people started doing NFA trusts was to get around a CLEO who was abusing his power to block the purchase of NFA items. That went away because a CLEO signoff is no longer required. Now the primary reason people do NFA trusts is so others within the trust can use their NFA items without them being present. With a single trustee gun trust, that's out the out the window.

2) a PMF can be marked with the name ("maker") of legal entity, no need to put you own name. If you don't care to put you own full name on the NFA item, so be it.

Valid point if you can't stand having your name on NFA items. I don't like it, so I buy factory NFA items whenever possible. Otherwise, I just deal with seeing my name engraved on the item. That's no worse than having a trust name on an item.

3) trusts also serve as a good way to show your legal ownership of your property, and a date that cannot be challenged.

Is people wrongly claiming ownership of NFA items really such a problem? I've literally never heard of this happening.

4) outside of the legal benefits, the trust also a good way to document your property (serial numbers) just in case something gets lost or stolen.

Or, you could just take a picture and list the item in a spreadsheet. Plus, the NFA items would be listed on their individual forms, so that pretty much proves ownership. People are automatically in big trouble if they possess without said form.

If one was to put all of their NFA and non-NFA items in a single trustee gun trust, I could perhaps buy that there is a reason to do it. However, if the non-NFA items are excluded, then I see absolutely no reason to start one at this point.

If people can't see the benefits of gun trust, so be it.

Sure. Everyone should do whatever works for them. I'm just providing my take on it.