Army picks SIG to produce Next Generation Squad Weapon

[ubet]

As for the obvious route of refining the 5.56, there's not enough payola for Beltway Bandits in that... lobbyists and consultants and other camp-followers gotta get their piece of the action, and then there's the matter of senior officers and career bureaucrats feathering their retirement beds with those sweet defense-contractor "VP of Doing Nothing" gigs.

^^^ I agree with all of that ^^^^ not that my opinion or say matters to anyone. I am guessing this whole thing has more to do with lining pockets more than it does the boots on the ground. Just look at the f35 boondoggle. A simple law stating that no legislature, or gov employee involved with procurement, testing or development can receive any money, funding or jobs while employed by .gov or for 10 years AFTER they leave gov service, for any entity involved in any of their job. IE you don’t get to use our dollars, waisting our money to line your pockets for some bs “consultant” so a company can swindle joe tax payer.


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[caporider]

Great, they a made the SPEAR a f***ing side charger. So we've learned exactly nothing from fighting 20 years in desert environments.

It can be either a side charger or a T-handle charger. Both methods work independently of each other.

The side charger also has a sliding dust cover, so it seems like the NGSW would handle foreign matter ingress fairly well, no?

[vicious_cb]

It can be either a side charger or a T-handle charger. Both methods work independently of each other.

The side charger also has a sliding dust cover, so it seems like the NGSW would handle foreign matter ingress fairly well, no?

Regardless its still a huge slot crap can get into with or without a dustcover. Not to mention weakening a receiver that supposed to handle 80k psi cartridges.

[ABNAK]

Regardless its still a huge slot crap can get into with or without a dustcover. Not to mention weakening a receiver that supposed to handle 80k psi cartridges.

I'll wager that IF this eventually gets adopted, they will ultimately download the .277 to less wear-and-tear specs. They did for the M855A1 (I think it's still a little "spunky" but not what it was).

[vicious_cb]

I'll wager that IF this eventually gets adopted, they will ultimately download the .277 to less wear-and-tear specs. They did for the M855A1 (I think it's still a little "spunky" but not what it was).

And guess who got the contract to produce this 6.8 +P+ ammo? F***ing Winchester Olin. I feel bad for the Joe who wants to own a civ version of the SPEAR to train with at home and has to buy XM +P+ bulls***t from Winchester and gets a kaboom with those pressures. Because we all know the top QC Winchester has . I have a drawer full of Ranger T duty ammo with backwards loaded primers I was going to get around to tearing down and reloading to prove it.

[BoringGuy45]

Here's what I don't understand: How does the .277 Fury pierce Level IV plates when heavier armor piercing 30.06 rounds traveling at similar velocities cannot?

[Hammer_Man]

Here's what I don't understand: How does the .277 Fury pierce Level IV plates when heavier armor piercing 30.06 rounds traveling at similar velocities cannot?

Lobbyist space magic.

[Alpha-17]

Battlecruiser woulda been a better comparison and more fitting his description, "outrun what you can't outgun and outgun what you can't outrun."

As for the obvious route of refining the 5.56, there's not enough payola for Beltway Bandits in that... lobbyists and consultants and other camp-followers gotta get their piece of the action, and then there's the matter of senior officers and career bureaucrats feathering their retirement beds with those sweet defense-contractor "VP of Doing Nothing" gigs.

Fast battleships like the Iowa- and King George V-Classes were the ultimate evolution of the battleship lineage and were designed to operate exactly as I said.

Rather than assume it's a conspiracy, how exactly would 5.56 be upgraded again? The Army tried with the original M855A1 loading, and we got all the extra wear problems that forced them to down load it. If they tried to use the full, damn near proof specs of the cartridge, wouldn't that ultimately force them to buy new carbines anyway, and thus resulting in the same Beltway payout?

Yeah I guess it all depends on how the term is used. From what I've read Big Army is implying that we are overmatched, but obviously the desire would be to become the one doing the overmatching. Like I said though, it seems that while they are referring to a GPMG like the PKM they seem to conveniently leave out the 240 our platoons have, like it doesn't exist or something. That of course wouldn't fit the narrative to justify a new toy and the $$$ that will be spread around as a result.

Most platoons normally have a pair of 240s. At best, a couple more issued to give them more fire power. If ambushed, that means that 4 guys out of the entire platoon have the ability to influence the fight, while the rest have to advance several hundred meters to have that ability. Difficult at best in the environment of Afghanistan. Even with a designated marksman per squad, that adds 3 guys to the list of people able to fight. Six if you put a DMR in every fireteam (meaning a quarter of the team are using different weapons/ammo than the rest) The Army's decision to standardize a weapon with the ability to allow the entire platoon to get into the fight far faster is certainly reasonable in my opinion. Unless things have changed in US Army thinking, the MGs exist to support the Riflemen, not the otherway around. Leaving your riflemen out of the fight wastes their combat power.

Great, they a made the SPEAR a f***ing side charger. So we've learned exactly nothing from fighting 20 years in desert environments.

I mean, so does the 240, and it's never been a problem. I also quite like the side charging handle on my SCARs, the Bren 805, the AK, Galil, etc. Hell, what's surprising is that they bothered to include the annoying T-handle AR charger rather than an ambi, non-reciprocating handle option.

And guess who got the contract to produce this 6.8 +P+ ammo? F***ing Winchester Olin. I feel bad for the Joe who wants to own a civ version of the SPEAR to train with at home and has to buy XM +P+ bulls***t from Winchester and gets a kaboom with those pressures. Because we all know the top QC Winchester has . I have a drawer full of Ranger T duty ammo with backwards loaded primers I was going to get around to tearing down and reloading to prove it.

Sig will also be producing the ammo as well, so it likely won't be all bad. Winchester commerical QC is pretty bad, but I've not had any problems with Lake City produced ammo since they took over.

And based on an interview with a Sig employee on the new rifle/cartridge, the SAAMI specs go up to 80,000 PSI, but the cartridges they've used tend to top out at about 73,000 or so. The extra bit was to give them room for improvment down the line. In this case, it might help account for shoddy QC.

Here's what I don't understand: How does the .277 Fury pierce Level IV plates when heavier armor piercing 30.06 rounds traveling at similar velocities cannot?

I'd actually wager that it doesn't. The language the Army officers used in the briefing implied more that the round would deliver enough umpf, even at range, to put anyone hit out of the fight even without penetrating. Looks like we've got for the warhammer/mace approach to armor rather than actually trying to punch through.

[1168]

Yeah I guess it all depends on how the term is used. From what I've read Big Army is implying that we are overmatched, but obviously the desire would be to become the one doing the overmatching. Like I said though, it seems that while they are referring to a GPMG like the PKM they seem to conveniently leave out the 240 our platoons have, like it doesn't exist or something. That of course wouldn't fit the narrative to justify a new toy and the $$$ that will be spread around as a result.

even more stupider, “they” claim the PKM outranges the 240. It doesn’t, at all, ever. Its a great gun, and I’m a huge fan, but there is no planet on which it outranges the 240, no matter how many drugs or prostitutes one ingests.

I have a drawer full of Ranger T duty ammo with backwards loaded primers I was going to get around to tearing down and reloading to prove it.

I like Ranger T, but I’ve also gotten quite a few backward primers and bullshit in the cavities. I cull maybe 0.5%. I don’t think I’ve had any problems with their FMJ pistol ammo or any of their rifle ammo, although their rifle ammo has way huger velocity swings than Federal’s. Its pretty bad.

Here's what I don't understand: How does the .277 Fury pierce Level IV plates when heavier armor piercing 30.06 rounds traveling at similar velocities cannot?

It likely won’t. But just like with 5.56, hits to the 85% of body surface area not protected with plates will result in CNS kills, fractures, and hemorrhage, with the same old outcomes. Eighty freaking five percent, even on enemies so equipped.

Call of Duty Modern Warfare Survival Mode Juggernauts aren’t real.

[BoringGuy45]

It likely won’t. But just like with 5.56, hits to the 85% of body surface area not protected with plates will result in CNS kills, fractures, and hemorrhage, with the same old outcomes. Eighty freaking five percent, even on enemies so equipped.

Well, if it doesn't, then there really is no reason for this new rifle and round. The whole point of this .277 Fury was that it was supposed to punch through Level IV plates at up to 600 yards away because of this fear that we're going to fight the Russians and/or Chinese in same kind long range of battles in the same environment that we encountered in Afghanistan, only they're going to be wearing body armor.