Primer showdown: WOLF vs. CCI #41

[markm]

I'll have to take a look at that. I never really paid much attention to the anvil, but I'll see how the WOLF and CCI compare. I'll get a pic up later if I remember.

[RIBZ]

This is an interesting discussion. Thanks Markm for taking the time to write it up.

[markm]

I continue to struggle with these 41s. I mean... my whole loading approach for the last 10 plus years is around the WOLF SRM. It's surprising the challenges an extreme primer change can give.

I had another blown CCI 41 primer on Sunday on the 85gr load that I thought I made too weak. We had a Factory .308 round blow a primer which honestly made me feel better. I've never had so many blown primers in all my life... all just this year.

[triggerjerk]

I recently loaded 41s for the first time. I experienced several slightly protruding primers from lesser loads in workup (.3gr increments) thru max. Not really that flattened. Had written it off as over annealing some of the cases. Now I wonder. This was also 1st time loading aa2230. Other powders/primers I have worked up to the hottest listing to be found with flatter primers and even case head smears towards max end, but no protrusion. Yes, with same gomer annealing process. Still, I picked a hotter load with the 41s. We'll soon see what going from 85 to 95 degrees does....

[markm]

If you're not heating the shoulder/neck for a "long" time, and your oxidation iris is less than half way from the mouth, I doubt your annealing is causing issues.

Softening brass is a function of time and temp. I average around 4 seconds of flame time which wouldn't get anywhere near softening the case head.

[triggerjerk]

I agree, and will suggest temp can be evil as a function of distance from or position within the flame if spinning in a drill with no jig for uniform neck/flame relationship. Not an engineer, but will jabber about my first annealing attempt which was in 3006 for a 1903 Springfield set up for across the course. Fired headspace was significantly shorter than prefired. Had a brief conversation with Mic McPherson of Precision Shooting Mag. He said overannealed neck/shoulder. Got some 800 Tempolaq and prob solved. My wonder is did firing pin shove case forward and set over softened shoulder back before ignition/expansion and then case gripped walls before it expanded to length? If so, why didn't head separate? Anyway, this lot 556 was eyeball/count annealed (yep, 4 secs)......

And once upon a time I was too lazy to re-up on propane and tried mapp. Learned that if you simply get your cases out in the presence of mapp, you have ruined them long before heat gets to the base....

So, is it the 41s or my annealing.... Not gonna worry too much at this point as the blammo is surprisingly accurate, but we'll see what happens when the temperature goes up another 10-15 degrees outside.....

[tomme boy]

If you think you over annealed the case, size the case several times. Each time it will work the brass and make it harder. I neck size certain brass like this on purpose to gain a little neck tension over just using the ID for tension.

What ever you guys are doing with these blown primers you need to look at what you are doing. Also you may have tight chambers and a short throat. You are way over psi. If you are showing any signs of pressure you are already way over max for your gun.

[markm]

If you think you over annealed the case, size the case several times. Each time it will work the brass and make it harder. I neck size certain brass like this on purpose to gain a little neck tension over just using the ID for tension.

Over annealing can't be reversed. Once the zinc is cooked out of the brass, the case is ruined.

What ever you guys are doing with these blown primers you need to look at what you are doing. Also you may have tight chambers and a short throat. You are way over psi. If you are showing any signs of pressure you are already way over max for your gun.

It's obvious there's PSI spikes. These are known/old guns where popped primers are a recent issue.

[triggerjerk]

Pressure spikes is what weirds me on this one. Have done other workups for this gun with 4 primers and 5 powders. Brass annealed and not. Workup with the 41s/2230/55's as usual: 3 grains down from "a" listed max and .3gr intervals. Primers started pushing at 2nd or 3rd increment from starting up thru max and didn't get more frequent or worse as charge increased. 25.5gr gave 3 shotters near moa to 400, 3 moa at 500, then somehow near moa at 600 in a quick look at scope holdovers in no wind. Yeah, I'm the fudd that even weight sorts fmj projectiles....

[markm]

For what it's worth, the guys on Accurateshooter.com forums had a thread going about QC issues (dud primers) in recenct CCI 450 production runs. CCI 450s being the exact same primer as the 41s.

Maybe current production is even hotter than normal.