German Flakpanzers for Ukraine

[Slater]

Germany is supposedly sending fifty Gepard Flakpanzers to Ukraine. However, they seem to have run into a legal issue with the 35mm ammo:


"ZURICH, April 26 (Reuters) - Neutral Switzerland has vetoed the re-export of Swiss-made ammunition used in Gepard anti-aircraft tanks that Germany is sending to Ukraine, the government said on Tuesday.

Germany earlier announced its first delivery of heavy weapons to Ukraine to help it fend off Russian attacks following weeks of pressure at home and abroad to do so.

The Swiss State Secretariat for Economic Affairs (SECO) confirmed a report by broadcaster SRF that it had blocked Germany from sending munitions for the Gepard tank to Ukraine."

Wonder if all their 35mm Gepard ammo was sourced from Switzerland?


https://www.reuters.com/business/aer...ne-2022-04-26/

[alx01]

Speaking of Flakpanzers - that's a formidable weapon at least according to a few youtube videos.
This guys is claiming that one of those costs at least 3x the standard Leopard tank. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pP9rJ7dV_s


On a general note:

That reminds me something...

Germany, Poland, UK, Russia, Ukraine, France, other Central European countries - too many to name, and the U.S./Canada; a complex conflict based on a national identity, disputed borders, and breakaway republics; backstage deals and secret agreements and alliances; weapon and technology transfer to countries... That's pretty much how WWI and WWII went, isn't it?

Seriously, da faq Germany and Poland are doing? It's like they are trying to get bombed again. I understand that they want a political, military, and an economic collapse of Russia sooner rather than later. Do they realize if that happens, and that's a big IF, that will be AFTER German and Polish (and few other nations) cities and countrysides turn into Nuclear dust? (at least in a currently developing situation) Maybe under a different circumstances outcome would have been different.

German/Polish/British attitude can be summed up as - I don't care if my house burns down, as long as the whole neighborhood burns down as well.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

I don't know about Britian or Germany, but going by how the Ukranians have done, I think the Poles are exactly in the 'burn the MFer down', we ain't going back.

I still don't get the Putin Fluffing. Don't deceive yourself that it is 'Russia'. This has nothing to do with Russian people and everything to do with the oligarich kleptokratic failed oil-state that is the fiefdom of Putin and his 'friends', that he doesn't kill off.

Da Fuq are Germany and Poland doing? Being smart and bleeding out their enemy on someone else land. Duh. Putin is coming, I don't understand the people that don't understand that. Even Neville Chamberlain eventually got it. You say that this is just WWI and II again, land fought over empires and countries? You don't say, as if that is unique in history. We also saw a 'land for peace in our time', that seems to be a common theme; at least some people are getting it.

Going nuclear is Putin's bell to ring. Frankly, Putin is always going to threaten nuclear attacks. Let me invade the countries I want to invade and take over or get nuked is not a rational or long-term viable strategy. And frankly, what do you nuke? Seriously name the target that gets you... what? Blow a hole in the lines? As if this is Verdun, and by the look of things, Putin's troops couldn't exploit it. Nuke Kyiv or Lviv? And that gets you... what? Nuke some NATO bases... like how many? Nuke Warsaw or Berlin.... You already lost the rest of the world at Lviv. You threaten Berlin and the Chinese will tap you out themselves.

[Wildcat]

Have they tried using it to hit cruise missiles?

[alx01]

Da Fuq are Germany and Poland doing? Being smart and bleeding out their enemy on someone else land. Duh. Putin is coming, I don't understand the people that don't understand that.

I'm not a military or a political expert, but I think you're wrong on this. Germany has pretty bad track record when to comes to World wars. Two out of two they were on the wrong side. Polish motivations are also questionable. They have some unhealthy obsession about Russia, but I understand that given their 400 years warring history with Russia.

As of history, it's easy to say now what was a right or wrong thing to do looking at it back. But what I do know is that every police officer recommends not to escalate the situation when you're faced with attacker.

Why people happily support any war and beat battle drums is beyond me. Solution is very simple: if anyone (country-wise, or individually) supports it - send your money, send your children, and go yourself to a war yourself. Ukraine (or whoever) has obviously decided to take that gamble of an active conflict with Russia. I understand that - they had a large army and still do. But I think there was a peaceful solution. Maybe not exactly to the Ukrainian liking, but IMHO that's better than having a whole country bombed, families and economy destroyed.

[alx01]

- double tap -

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Started like writing a longer post, but in reality, your post pretty much speaks for itself. It is a distillation of the head-trash and bull-shit that for some reason people subscribe to. Thanks for showing that you have nothing intelligent to offer to the conversation, welcome to the ignore list.

[mack7.62]

Have they tried using it to hit cruise missiles?

Don't know but should work fine, this thing is typical over engineered German, it even has a muzzle velocity detector to read the speed of the rounds leaving the barrel and adjust the lead. Also since the eighties, Stinger teams have been accompanying the Gepard units to take advantage of their long-range scanning capacity so useful for giving your MANPAD teams a heads up. One suggestion is best use of these would be around Odessa for cruise missile and beach defense.

Also about Swiss neutrality and the ammo, since this is a defensive weapon they might be more flexible, but 60,000 rounds are supposed to be provided. Also maybe we need to remind the Swiss about how the US Army Air Force got confused and "accidentally" bombed Switzerland a couple of times during WWII because they were trading with Germany.

[Business_Casual]

Started like writing a longer post, but in reality, your post pretty much speaks for itself. It is a distillation of the head-trash and bull-shit that for some reason people subscribe to. Thanks for showing that you have nothing intelligent to offer to the conversation, welcome to the ignore list.

Why are different opinions so triggering? People have the right to believe and say things in America, regardless.

[Slater]

We tried to build our own version of the Gepard - the M247 Sgt York. It was a dumpster fire from beginning to end.