Page 9 of 9 FirstFirst ... 789
Results 81 to 82 of 82

Thread: Super high rise optics----thoughts?

  1. #81
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    70
    Feedback Score
    3 (100%)
    Just for reference:

    Badger C1 1.70" 0 Deg cant is 6.3oz (what I personally use, bought it when Badger Ord was the only one with a 1.70" LVPO mount height at that time)

    Reptilia AUS 30mm 1.70" is 5.8oz.

    Both are machined from 7075 T6 and use STANAG mounting system use 4 screw top clamp style for the scope. Both are modular. Can't go wrong with any of them and I would argue that 0.5oz is a negligible difference between Badger / Reptilia / Scalar Works. Geissele is a bit heavy at 7.1oz, but even that is only 1.3 difference from the lightest to heaviest.

    I've recently been considering very carefully a more NODS focused setup for my do it all carbine (currently, I run a C1 1.7" with a Romeo 4S at 35 degrees 1.93" off the badger J-arm system). I just ordered badger's 12 o'clock scope ring mount for the 4S (same screw pattern as Aimpoint T1/T2) to facilitate passive aiming as the 35 degree is a no-go for NODS. 45 Degree isn't much better either as I have a 45-degree J-arm too, so Piggyback seems to be the way to go for NODS passive aiming with LVPO's, Scopes and Fixed Power Optics like Trijicon ACOG's. That carbine setup currently relies on a SureFire X400V exclusively for IR use, but I think that passive is becoming more and more important depending on what context you expect. For indoors, I think IR pointers make more sense, for outdoors, Passive Aiming makes more sense when under NODS.

    For a "Ukraine" type of situation, passive aiming matters a lot. What they are finding out is that T80's / T90's, BMP's and drones all have IR capability. Ukrainian forces using IR are getting shot at by armor (IR scopes) or artillery (via drone spotters) that is spotting their IR lasers. IR has been common on armor for decades however we really haven't had a peer vs. peer conflict where both have similar technological capabilities. IR detection is also available on Drones now and ground-based detection systems designed for surveillance. In fact, Russia has a ground-based detection system for scope / optics glare, so they have to run Kill Flashes on RDS and Scopes during day operations in areas covered by such systems. GWOT was completely different context than Ukraine, so for GWOT, IR pointers worked fine as the Taliban generally lacked that capability. For a SHTF home defense context, I'm sure IR pointers are a fairly safe bet as well. As always, it depends on what you think could be a legitimate case of use. For community defense (your nation, state or even city / town) against a foreign invader or well-funded terrorist / cartel group, I think passive aiming makes a lot of sense.

    I can say that the slightly larger 20mm RDS at 12 o'clock is also easier to acquire than the micro pistol sights (like an RMR) running piggyback. I tried it with NODS indoor just dry fire practice, and it was pretty quick and consistent to pick up, very close to my 1.93" dot only gun, so for dual optics setups with an emphasis on NODS use (two aiming methods), I think piggyback has the best balance for that application when your running dedicated magnified optics on that gun. The bigger 20mm body is more forgiving than micro pistol sights, but at distance it obstructs sight picture a bit more, so there's good and bad about 20mm RDS and NODS.

    I do like the 12 o'clock for aiming during movement as well since I can float the gun and keep a decent sight picture while being much more upright, it just makes moving much easier, more natural and stable. The other advantage of closed tubes is rain / snow / debris. Open types do not do well in such environments which can be a big problem outdoors and enclosed micro pistol sights have very thick bodies and small windows, so I'm not sure the would work the best for NODS passive aiming, but I haven't tried it personally.

    Never been a fan of piggy backs in the past due to loss of a cheek weld and barely even a chin weld when sitting atop larger optics like an LVPO or Scope, but for passive aiming with NODS, they work very well and exploring other benefits like movement, I get why they are still a common setup for military / LE applications even though not so much with 3-gun.

    Maybe also consider an X400V that does 350 Lumen White, IR Illume and IR Point (Class 1) at just 5oz. It's pic rail compatible. Sure, the white light isn't as bright as their X300 Ultra or the SCOUT series, but 350 is still pretty bright and it's plenty for CQC distances. If you need something more powerful just for spotting, use a handheld SureFire. One might be surprised at how versatile the X400V is, I use a pressure pad with M-lock mount up top on my handguard and its way cheaper than a MAWL-C with a Scout light.

    Sometimes, less is more :-). I used to run an ATPIAL-C with the unity TAPS Pro and an X300 Ultra for my electronics package, after switching to just the X400V, I personally think it's a better balance between weight, cost and capability relative to what my eyes can identify through NODS (about 100 yards) in real-world weather conditions. Remember, there's a downside to bigger better brighter, you increase the likelihood and distance someone else can see your position. All the GWOT vets I know of used the low powered settings for IR stuff for that reason and the full power was typically reserved only for signaling friendlies, particularly aircraft or armor.

    I think sometimes things look better on paper than they work in practice. Heavy barrels, super powerful lights etc. have their place, but you can do a lot of good quality moderate powered systems and modern hammer forged lightweight barrels from good suppliers (DD, Giessele, FN etc.).
    Last edited by win&legend; 03-12-24 at 11:58.

  2. #82
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    70
    Feedback Score
    3 (100%)
    P.S., sorry for the long post, but there were a lot of things that tied together, some of them more recent and what I started out with is not what I use today. You learn as you go, just sharing what I've learned from those with real world experience and my own experiences.

    I also want to point out that high end LVPO's like the Razor, Kahles and other similar scopes have really good 1x. My FOV with the Razor is considerably better than a T2 / 4S or similar RDS because the body of the scope is so thin and the FOV is so wide.

    The only downside is yes, scope shadow, but I rarely have issues with that and even if you get some shadow from a less than stellar cheek weld, as long as you can see the target and align the crosshairs / dot, your good to go.

    I think with top mounted RDS that I'm now exploring (having run 35 offset for years), it moves to a more dedicated role for NODS and close ranges with movement where you may still need to aim but can't get enough accuracy just sighting over the barrel without sights (like 15~25 yards). Anything closer and you don't need sights on a long gun, just use reflexive techniques of sighting over the bore completely heads up.

    Beyond 25 yards, I really don't see a need for anything, but a good LVPO that has true 1x both eyes open capability and a really good FOV.
    Last edited by win&legend; 03-14-24 at 08:23.

Page 9 of 9 FirstFirst ... 789

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •