2011s in LE Use

[Tokarev]

I do find it somewhat remarkable that Staccato has been able to take the 2011 from a competition handgun into one that's almost main stream for LE.

Here is a recent AmericanRifleman.com article that mentions 500+ departments allow the 2011 for police use:

https://www.americanrifleman.org/con...p-optic-ready/

I'm curious about the numbers. I assume 99% of the guns being carried are personal purchase with only the best-funded SWAT teams buying for team use. Groups like USMS and probably LAPD SWAT.

Anyway, the big point to discuss is the real (or imagined) benefit the 2011 has over pretty much everything else out there. Is the $2400 price tag worth it or are we just talking status symbol?

And where is Wilson Combat in all this? If Staccato can re-invent the 2011 for police use can't Wilson Combat make inroads into the same market with the SFX9 and the EDC X9L? Don't these guns swim in the same market space?

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[ggammell]

Yeah. Most are authorized for personal purchase.

Is the $2400 worth it? First, Staccato has a good guy program so that takes a chunk off and gets you a few extra mags. Second, is it worth it compared to a Glock? I’d say no. Is it worth it compared to other 2011 platforms? Yes. Absolutely.

Wilson can’t compete here. They’re hand built guns. Staccato has kind of unlocked the ability to mass produce the 2011 in a reliable format. Staccato also hit the size profile just with with the 4-4.5” barrel length. The EXC9L is a 5 and frankly, is just too long for a street cop duty gun. The shorter version has no rail for WML. Wilsons are also not factory ready to accommodate slide mounted optics which are blowing up in the LE world. There are higher capacity 1911s for the leather paddle holster world.

[Tokarev]

Staccato has kind of unlocked the ability to mass produce the 2011 in a reliable format.

Are they not hand built? I guess there are levels of what "hand built" means I suppose.

It is also somewhat puzzling that, aside from Staccato, nobody else is trying to compete in this market. Para went under with Remington but I assume someone else bought the name. Is there no chance for the P14, 16, etc? Also pretty surprised that Ruger isn't making a hicap based off the Caspian frame. Maybe not something anyone would want in the LE world but it might be a good option for other markets.

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[ggammell]

Are they not hand built? I guess there are levels of what "hand built" means I suppose.

It is also somewhat puzzling that, aside from Staccato, nobody else is trying to compete in this market. Para went under with Remington but I assume someone else bought the name. Is there no change for the P14, 16, etc? Also pretty surprised that Ruger isn't making a hicap based off the Caspian frame. Maybe not something anyone would want in the LE world but it might be a good option for other markets.

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Staccato are not gunsmith fit hand built like a Wilson is. A Wilson takes about 40 hours for one smith to build last I heard. Staccatos lower half is polymer now. They’re built, not crafted.

The mega company’s like Remington and Ruger aren’t advancing the market. They focus on volume, not product development. They need to have broad appeal and 2011s aren’t there yet. Competition shooters are a pretty small market. LE is bigger but government funded and major quantity purchases of $1800-2400 guns aren’t happening.

[Tokarev]

Staccatos lower half is polymer now.

As the STI frame was since its inception.

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[ggammell]

As the STI frame was since its inception.

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First gen of the staccato had aluminum grips, as many other 2011s do.

[WillBrink]

Are they not hand built? I guess there are levels of what "hand built" means I suppose.

It is also somewhat puzzling that, aside from Staccato, nobody else is trying to compete in this market. Para went under with Remington but I assume someone else bought the name. Is there no chance for the P14, 16, etc? Also pretty surprised that Ruger isn't making a hicap based off the Caspian frame. Maybe not something anyone would want in the LE world but it might be a good option for other markets.

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The previous attempts at high cap double stack 1911 based 1911s from the large manufacturers resulted in unreliable jammo matics. I don't know if they have gotten any better but up until the Wilson design and build, not a single double stack 9mm 1911 based gun I'd risk my life on. From all I hear, the STI gun has broken the code if a dead reliable pistol based on 1911s.

[markm]

I'm honestly surprised at the reliability claims on the Staccato. We've run into several mag follower issues and malfs and stuff. STI sent out replacement followers and springs. The Staccato P is one of the most enjoyable pistols I've ever shot, and I plan to buy one, but I agree that I'm not sure I'd trust my life to it.

[WillBrink]

Will enjoy your Wilson they are a great gun and a treasure to own. I have my Cylinder and Slide full house Hi Power which is more than the Wilson cost wise, but not nearly the gun as the Wilson. It has nostalgic appeal to me.

Your comment on how many polymer wonder pistols you could have bought made me stop and figure out the cost I have in the Hyena 357 sig and I figured it out at about $1050, with the new 3 pound connector I just ordered.

Will how is the Wilson for carry in terms of weight?

A few time a year I pull out the Hi Power and carry it for a couple of weeks, then it gets old and I go back to the Hyena 357 sig. I am in love with the round when using the Underwood Leighi Defense, it is like having a rifle in my holster.

I actually prefer a little heft in carry guns and the Wilson is in the Goldilocks zone between weight (Weight Loaded: 36.5 oz) to carry around all day vs felt recoil. Also, being a one piece aluminum framed pistol, it's not so top heavy and has great balance compared to polymer pistols. I also forgot how comfortable a quality leather holster can be as it's been a long time since I used one. I could not bring myself to put a pistol as nice as the Wilson in a kydex holster, and went old school leather belt slide, and man in that comfortable set up.

I'm honestly surprised at the reliability claims on the Staccato. We've run into several mag follower issues and malfs and stuff. STI sent out replacement followers and springs. The Staccato P is one of the most enjoyable pistols I've ever shot, and I plan to buy one, but I agree that I'm not sure I'd trust my life to it.

That's interesting. I'd gotten the impression they were GTG. I tend to view the Staccato as a duty or competition gun and the Wilson a CCW pistol.

[pag23]

I'm honestly surprised at the reliability claims on the Staccato. We've run into several mag follower issues and malfs and stuff. STI sent out replacement followers and springs. The Staccato P is one of the most enjoyable pistols I've ever shot, and I plan to buy one, but I agree that I'm not sure I'd trust my life to it.

My C2 has run 350 rounds of 115 and 124 with no problem...but did notice a chip or flake to the coating on the top of the rt side of the frame. I'll call staccato at some point and send them a photo but the other areas of the gun look normal...