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Thread: The New Whats Wrong with the Russian Army

  1. #211
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    Appears Snake Island has claimed another Russian ship, the tug Vasily Bekh was reported struck by two Harpoon missiles while on a resupply run. Fairly new entered service in 2017 and I believe she was around 67 meters, 1600 ton and had a TOR air defense missile launcher strapped to her helo deck which did not help.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/sebasti...h=160863e8408c
    Last edited by mack7.62; 06-17-22 at 07:36.
    “The Trump Doctrine is ‘We’re America, Bitch.’ That’s the Trump Doctrine.”

    "He is free to evade reality, he is free to unfocus his mind and stumble blindly down any road he pleases, but not free to avoid the abyss he refuses to see."

  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by DG23 View Post
    *gurgle gurgle, Putin's the best, gurgle gurgle**
    (Edited your quote down to save space. I think I saved the gist of it.)

    You know, you're the only one of the propagandists on here I haven't set to ignore because for a while you were the only one occasionally making a point worth reading. Posts like that one are going to force me to reevaluate that opinion.

    That cartoon is laughably bad, and it was laughed off months ago when it was first posted. Not sure what you think you're accomplishing by posting it, other than it supports your bizarre worldview. But, hey, let's break your argument down, shall we?

    Putin, who's totally not a totalitarian dictator hell-bent on conquest, invaded, wait, and conducted a special military operation to liberate his fellow ethnic Russians who were being persecuted and killed by Neo Nazis. Those poor, picked on ethnic Russians hated the evil Neo Nazis so much that they declared independence, but the Neo Nazis just wouldn't let them go, and kept throwing everything (including their own unwilling male population, who all would rather run away rather than fight) at these poor people for no reason than their undying hatred of the Russians. Or something. That about the sum of it?

    Except, Putin's lackeys invaded before independence was declared. Russian citizens, recently living in Russia, were the early leaders of the "independence" movement. In reaction to military defeats, Russia intervened directly and prolonged the war by turning it into a stalemate. 8 years later, Putin invades the entire country, after claiming the Ukrainians were trying to conduct genocide. The evidence for this just happened to be discovered in territory the Russians had controlled for 8 years, and just happened to be discovered while the Russians were conducting massive wargames in Belarus. Yep, totally seems legit. After failing to secure the entire country, the Russians have now resorted to bombing the hell out of every inch of ground they take, which just happens to be the cities and homes of the people they are trying to "liberate." As has already been said, the number of civilian casualties inflicted by the Russians has now drastically outstripped those that can be blamed on the Ukrainians during the 8 years before Feb 24. That's pretty piss poor "liberation" if you destroy more homes and property and kill more people in a few months than the evil "occupiers" did in 8 years of "genocide".

    How about the people? You love to talk about the Ukrainian government forbidding men from leaving the country as if that's not relatively common for countries fighting for survival. (hell, the US has a long history of conscription, and other than the South during the Civil War, has never faced an existential threat of this scale) If that's so damning, what about this?

    https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraina/com...gh_casualties/

    We've got a Russian soldier joking about how they are using draftees from these "republics" as cannon fodder. Yep, they really give a crap about them, don't they? Clearly, the Russians are liberators and not brutal invaders. I'm sure you'll say that's just Ukrainian propaganda, but remember, he's a Russian soldier, and this isn't from any Ukrainian or Western media.

    And what's sad is we've already seen a discussion about this before. The last video I shared from Perun talked about this quite considerably. Since I doubt very much that you bother to even try and inform yourself on non-propaganda reports, here it is again, skipped forward to the relevant section:



    He quotes Separatist leadership to make his points, so again, you can't claim it's just Western Propaganda. Old men, with no training and WWII surplus, are being thrown into the fight and the Russians don't give a **** what happens to them. Yeah, they're definitely Russia's beloved cubs, who Putin is trying desperately to save from the evil west. Because remember, Putin started this. No one else. You were wrong about Russian intentions, you were wrong about Russia holding Ukraine to the Minsk agreements, you were wrong about Russian intentions in regards to both regime change and "avoiding civilian casualties" and now you are wrong about this.
    ...they should have seen that arms in their citizens' hands could not make them tyrants, but that evil orders of government make a city tyrannize. Since they had a good government, they did not have to fear their own arms.
    --Niccolo Machiavelli, Art of War

  3. #213
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    Dramatic moment Russian missile fails during launch and boomerangs back before ‘blowing up Putin’s troops’

    https://www.the-sun.com/news/5630803...h-ukraine-war/

    Religion is doing what you are told no matter what is right. Morality is doing what is right no matter what you are told...

  4. #214
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    Russia’s republics, bled dry by Putin, begin to demand independence from his rule

    https://inews.co.uk/news/world/putin...moscow-1698699

    In the fourth month of an ever-bloodier conflict with no foreseeable prospect of resolution, the idea of downsizing Russia is enjoying a resurgence. Hawks at European think tanks argue it is both viable and desirable and US officials have expressed support for the idea. Russian dissident newspaper The Moscow Times recently published a column predicting the war would “lead to the end of the country itself.”

    There are also signs of independence movements stirring in the Russian republics. The Federation is made up of 85 provinces of which 22 are republics, each representing a different ethnicity. Most were independent territories before being conquered and absorbed into Russia. They were granted autonomy after the fall of the USSR.
    Religion is doing what you are told no matter what is right. Morality is doing what is right no matter what you are told...

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    Russia will soon exhaust its combat capabilities, Western assessments predict

    https://www.msn.com/ru-xl/news/newsw...ict/ar-AAYQXFi

    The Russian military will soon exhaust its combat capabilities and be forced to bring its offensive in Ukraine’s eastern Donbas region to a grinding halt, according to Western intelligence predictions and military experts.

    “There will come a time when the tiny advances Russia is making become unsustainable in light of the costs and they will need a significant pause to regenerate capability,” said a senior Western official, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss a sensitive issue.

    But the “creeping” advances are dependent almost entirely on the expenditure of vast quantities of ammunition, notably artillery shells, which are being fired at a rate almost no military in the world would be able to sustain for long, said the senior Western official.

    Russia, meanwhile, is continuing to suffer heavy losses of equipment and men, calling into question how much longer it can remain on the attack, the official said.

    But conditions for Ukrainian troops are only likely to improve as more sophisticated Western weapons arrive, while those of Russian forces can be expected to deteriorate as they dig deeper into their stocks of old, outdated equipment, said retired Gen. Ben Hodges, a former commander of U.S. forces in Europe who is now with the Center for European Policy Analysis. At some point in the coming months, the Ukrainians will have received enough Western weaponry that it is likely they will be able to go on the counteroffensive and reverse the tide of the war, he said.
    Religion is doing what you are told no matter what is right. Morality is doing what is right no matter what you are told...

  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by tn1911 View Post
    Russia will soon exhaust its combat capabilities, Western assessments predict

    https://www.msn.com/ru-xl/news/newsw...ict/ar-AAYQXFi
    Imagine believing MSN news. Really inhaling the copium there bro.
    Forward Ascertainment Group

  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by tn1911 View Post
    Russia will soon exhaust its combat capabilities, Western assessments predict
    Looks like they took the city of Severodonetsk before any of that garbage you are spouting. The Ukraine troops somehow managed to beat a retreat from that one.

    Remember what Zelensky said about that city?

    Earlier this month, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky called Severodonetsk “an epicenter of the confrontation in the Donbass.”

    “In many ways, the fate of our Donbass is being decided there,” he claimed.

    Remind us again how Ukraine is 'winning' here...

  8. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by vicious_cb View Post
    Imagine believing MSN news. Really inhaling the copium there bro.
    Slightly better than the other guy with his 'news' from random twatter idiots.

  9. #219
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    Guys! Remember, we are all going to discuss this like adults. As far as I know none of us are in the trenches so keep it cool.



    We need to remember, at the start of this the Ukrainians were going to fall within days or weeks. They were going to take Kiev, were going to roll through Odesa and perhaps even roll into Moldova to join up with Transnistria. Now we are talking about a couple of individual towns and being amazing victories for the Russians. This is a war and a huge mess. Clearly the Russians started this war with a decapitation/regime change based on mistaken intelligence (I guess we aren't the only ones). Both sides have lost an unbelievable amount of material and men for a land corridor along the eastern side of the country. Now, the Russians have found their footing as they have selected more realistic goals. If things keep grinding along like this I would assume that the Russians will be able to sue for peace and consolidate some material gains in the Donbas . This will certainly be a victory for the Russians (at huge cost to their military and their economy, but Putin knew this at the outset, even if he wasn't expecting what he got). If the Ukrainians are able to integrate the new gear that they are getting into their military they might be able to claw back some of this territory. Because I am not Nostrodamas, I can't say for sure which of these two will happen. However, I will say, and you can come back and mock me later, there is no way the Russians take the Ukraine. It is clear they just don't have the capacity.


    So here is what I predict (screen shot for later mockery!).

    1. Ukraine will still be an independent country, permanently aligned with the EU and NATO. It will also be several orders of magnitude better armed and permanently sympathetic to the west.

    2. Ukraine will probably have to give up land roughly starting at Kherson in the South, curving back to Donetest and up a little past Luhansk. This is a win for Russia. Whether it was worth all this is up to debate. I certainly don't think so, but I am not Vladimir Putin.

    3. Sweden and Finland will be part of Nato, making Putin's stated goal of creating a buffer between Nato and the Russian empire a colossal failure. (Yes, I know Turkey is slowing the process down, but they will back down after they get bought off).

    4. The Russians are headed for dark days when the price of oil collapses. He is already dependent on selling oil at cut rate prices to India and China. They will come back for further discounts when the market price of oil drops.

    5. I am not sure how the Russians are going to deal with things like the collapse of their domestic airlines (as just one example). They will not be able to lease aircraft, get parts, etc. If this doesn't come to and end soon they won't be able to support their aircraft. The lessors have already written of the aircraft. It's a huge mess. I can't imagine anyone leasing them new aircraft one the next decade. Maybe they will think of something.

    6. I don't care how much you think they will win, nobody can say Russian military equipment or tactics have made any kind of good showing. Russia has been dependent on the sales of this equipment to (mostly) poor countries. It's going to be a while before they are able to trick serious people into believing their equipment is anything other than 70s surplus.

    EDITED TO ADD

    7. I am interested to see if they will default on their debts tonight. The story from Russia is that they are fine because of the uptick in the price of oil (although they haven't been able to charge the full amount since purchasing from them is complicated by sanctions, etc). They are at the end of their 30 days frame period tonight, and I don't think anyone will accept their propped-up Rubles. Definitely something to watch.
    Reminder, we don't need to ruin every thread with social/political commentary and thread drift. Sometimes, it's okay to just talk about the topic.

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dumb Gun Collector View Post
    6. I don't care how much you think they will win, nobody can say Russian military equipment or tactics have made any kind of good showing. Russia has been dependent on the sales of this equipment to (mostly) poor countries. It's going to be a while before they are able to trick serious people into believing their equipment is anything other than 70s surplus.
    I agree largely with the rest, though I tend to disagree with this one. Never forget the Lazer Pig loop, because it will make a massive comeback if Russian propaganda spouts "we won! We're so great!" long enough.



    On the plus side, that means Russian sympathetic countries will continue to buy crap, and the Russian military may fail to learn lessons long term from their opening disasters.
    ...they should have seen that arms in their citizens' hands could not make them tyrants, but that evil orders of government make a city tyrannize. Since they had a good government, they did not have to fear their own arms.
    --Niccolo Machiavelli, Art of War

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