The New Whats Wrong with the Russian Army

[Diamondback]

Their best tank, the T90 is not fairing well either. Typical of Russian stuff, it's more show than go. "On paper" the T90 sounds pretty impressive, on par with other MBT from handful of countries. In reality, sounds like typical Russian stuff where corners cut, unreliable systems, armor not actually as good etc as claimed and so forth. I'm biased, but seems to me the Abrams, much less the most recent version, would mop the floor with T90s in battle and survive much of what the Ukes using to take them out, but only conjecture on my end.

In fact, all T90 is is a rebranded and lightly upgraded T72. Needed a new name 'cuz it's hard to sell a tank that people watched go Jack-in-the-Box every night live on CNN...

[mack7.62]

This war has not been kind to the Russian arms industry foreign sales division, about the only weapon that is working well is their cruise missiles, if you want to blow up high rise apartment buildings from a distance buy Russian. Course they can't build them without Western components but I am sure France and Germany will find a way to keep the supply going.

[WillBrink]

In fact, all T90 is is a rebranded and lightly upgraded T72. Needed a new name 'cuz it's hard to sell a tank that people watched go Jack-in-the-Box every night live on CNN...

I'd read that about the T80, didn't know it applied to the 90. They have a new "super tank" that makes all kinds of claims it will match or exceed the Abrams, but the Russians lie bigly about the capabilities of their kit, and for some reason, people believe it.

[1168]

That's crazy, I've never actually heard of that.

Yeah, there’s no Western equivalent that I can think of off the top of my head. Experience getting ambushed in mountain passes or in urban terrain in Afghanistan, Chechnya, and Syria made them want something that can traverse and elevate rapidly like a ZSU 23-4, but with tank armor and no radar. Also, autocannons are good for destroying infantry/irregulars inside residential/commercial type structures without dropping the whole structure or breaching the shit out of walls (making loopholes for more enemy to take advantage of) like tank main guns and arty.

Also, I seem to remember hearing about some agreement or treaty or whatever that limited the number of tanks, sorta like Versailles, so they found creative uses for T72 hulls. I’ll try to figure out later if thats rumor bullshit or not and get back to you.

The ATGMs would be useful in open tank combat, I would think.

Retrofit kits could be aimed at the export market, perhaps someone buying newer tanks and looking for something to do with their older ones.

A uniquely Russian technique of avoiding having competent Infantry and Cav Scouts. They try to use armor or arty for everything. Even the VDV uses tanks.

[Diamondback]

Yeah, there’s no Western equivalent that I can think of off the top of my head. Experience getting ambushed in mountain passes or in urban terrain in Afghanistan, Chechnya, and Syria made them want something that can traverse and elevate rapidly like a ZSU 23-4, but with tank armor and no radar. Also, autocannons are good for destroying infantry/irregulars inside residential/commercial type structures without dropping the whole structure or breaching the shit out of walls (making loopholes for more enemy to take advantage of) like tank main guns and arty.

Also, I seem to remember hearing about some agreement or treaty or whatever that limited the number of tanks, sorta like Versailles, so they found creative uses for T72 hulls. I’ll try to figure out later if thats rumor bullshit or not and get back to you.

The ATGMs would be useful in open tank combat, I would think.

Retrofit kits could be aimed at the export market, perhaps someone buying newer tanks and looking for something to do with their older ones.

A uniquely Russian technique of avoiding having competent Infantry and Cav Scouts. They try to use armor or arty for everything. Even the VDV uses tanks.

2S6 Tunguska, IIRC... I hated those damn things in combat flight sims.

[Johnny Rico]

Question for those more familiar than I.

Is any MBT's active protection system capable of defeating a swarm ATGM attack? Like 4-6 Javelins fired at once upon a single target?

[1168]

2S6 Tunguska, IIRC... I hated those damn things in combat flight sims.

Tunguska is focused on shooting flying things; its the successor to Shilka, I think. Terminator is focused on shooting ground targets.

[Diamondback]

Question for those more familiar than I.

Is any MBT's active protection system capable of defeating a swarm ATGM attack? Like 4-6 Javelins fired at once upon a single target?

If you have enough tanks with the Arena system clustered together, each tank picks its own missile to engage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arena_(countermeasure)

One tank probably not, a platoon close together maybe.

[glocktogo]

2S6 Tunguska, IIRC... I hated those damn things in combat flight sims.

You mean like this one?

http://players.brightcove.net/773748...=3303670006001

[utahjeepr]

I'd read that about the T80, didn't know it applied to the 90. They have a new "super tank" that makes all kinds of claims it will match or exceed the Abrams, but the Russians lie bigly about the capabilities of their kit, and for some reason, people believe it.

Nah, the T80 is another old Soviet Era tank. Turbine powered tank built parallel with the T72. T90 is the "improved and modernized" T72, and there are legit improvements albeit minor ones. Still, for all intents and purposes it's a "T72A2" not a new design.

Their new "Bad Boy" tank is the T14 "Armata" but only a small number were built, they are basically smoke.