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Thread: Self Defense Ammunition question

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by One More Time View Post
    From poking around on youtube, the MSR had 2868 fps from a 16" barrel.
    M855 was 2920 from a 16"

    Not much on SGD 62 gr but the listed 3,000 fps must have been with a 20" barrel.
    24”, I think.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1168 View Post
    I believe the 62gr Gold Dot and Fusion is the same projectile. Regular Fusion, with a deer on the box, is loaded lightly, like Gold Dot. Fusion MSR, with an AR on the box, is marked .223, but is closer to the upper limit, where there is overlap with 5.56. It also has sealant, like Gold Dot. Don’t let the velocities listed on the boxes confuse you; they are taken at different barrel lengths.
    Last time I looked, the MSR round was as hard to find as the others I mentioned. Been a while though.



    EDIT: looked at the first page or two of Google and found that only Federal itself had it advertised as "in stock" for $35.99 a box ($1.80 per round).
    Last edited by ABNAK; 05-23-22 at 18:46.
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1168 View Post
    I believe the 62gr Gold Dot and Fusion is the same projectile. Regular Fusion, with a deer on the box, is loaded lightly, like Gold Dot. Fusion MSR, with an AR on the box, is marked .223, but is closer to the upper limit, where there is overlap with 5.56. It also has sealant, like Gold Dot. Don’t let the velocities listed on the boxes confuse you; they are taken at different barrel lengths.
    Quote Originally Posted by One More Time View Post
    From poking around on youtube, the MSR had 2868 fps from a 16" barrel.
    M855 was 2920 from a 16"Not much on SGD 62 gr but the listed 3,000 fps must have been with a 20" barrel.
    62 GDSP 24445SP, 16" 1/8, unsuppressed, my data
    5-shot group, magnetospeed IIRC, avg 2660, SD 49
    12-shot group, oehler something or other, avg 2649, SD 31

    I know I have one from a labradar but can't find. It was about the same. About the same from other barrels, too.
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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by ST911 View Post
    62 GDSP 24445SP, 16" 1/8, unsuppressed, my data
    5-shot group, magnetospeed IIRC, avg 2660, SD 49
    12-shot group, oehler something or other, avg 2649, SD 31

    I know I have one from a labradar but can't find. It was about the same. About the same from other barrels, too.
    Molon, I think, found Gold Dot to be between Fusion and MSR in velocity. (Edit, here: https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Fe...Dot/16-687846/ ) Or perhaps my memory fails me. My 16” data shows MSR to match your Gold Dot data, but the barrel I used was quite slow; matched by a 12.3” with other cartridges. I can’t find any chrono data I’ve collected from SBR’s, though I thought I did.

    I wonder if Gold Dot has changed to mimic the MSR. That might make sense.

    Edit: this dude on TOS (Eagle_19er) found a big difference in 64gr Gold Dot and MSR in 4 barrel lengths. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediafile...SxS-233178.JPG Maybe my info is simply outdated and precedes the 62gr Gold Dot load.
    Last edited by 1168; 05-24-22 at 07:23. Reason: Add and fix links

  5. #65
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    Self Defense Ammunition question

    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    Someone here has probably done this (LE guys I'd guess). I've only shot auto glass once years back, and I didn't have bonded. Everything 5.56 sucked... even M855.

    I can't remember where I saw heard that you hold a little low for straight on car windshield shots... but it wasn't some youtuber douchebag or anything. It was a legit source.
    I first read it on snipershide forum about a decade ago., but I thought was hold high. And it was one of their legit posters. It might have even been Frank, but whomever it was had shot A LOT of windshield glass.


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    Last edited by ubet; 05-24-22 at 07:48.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1168 View Post
    Molon, I think, found Gold Dot to be between Fusion and MSR in velocity. (Edit, here: https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Fe...Dot/16-687846/ ) Or perhaps my memory fails me. My 16” data shows MSR to match your Gold Dot data, but the barrel I used was quite slow; matched by a 12.3” with other cartridges. I can’t find any chrono data I’ve collected from SBR’s, though I thought I did.

    I wonder if Gold Dot has changed to mimic the MSR. That might make sense.

    Edit: this dude on TOS (Eagle_19er) found a big difference in 64gr Gold Dot and MSR in 4 barrel lengths. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediafile...SxS-233178.JPG Maybe my info is simply outdated and precedes the 62gr Gold Dot load.
    I remember the 64 GD being faster and sloppier, can't quantify, but the 62 has been quite an improvement.

    There's a thread here somewhere in which we kicked the GD/Fusion/MSR thing around. I couldn't find it in a quick look, someone else may be able to.

    We also did the same thing with some of the Federal TRU and classic loads, too.
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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by ST911 View Post
    There's a thread here somewhere in which we kicked the GD/Fusion/MSR thing around. I couldn't find it in a quick look, someone else may be able to.
    .
    That was Molon’s thread. He posted the same OP on TOS, which is what I linked, because the pictures that contained the velocity tables were still present there, but the ones here have been lost to time. Here’s the M4C one: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...Grain-Gold-Dot

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by ST911 View Post
    I remember the 64 GD being faster and sloppier, can't quantify, but the 62 has been quite an improvement.

    There's a thread here somewhere in which we kicked the GD/Fusion/MSR thing around. I couldn't find it in a quick look, someone else may be able to.

    We also did the same thing with some of the Federal TRU and classic loads, too.
    What cartridges, other than M193 55g FMJ, have you seen successfully stop a violent attacker in short order? 62g JSP? 64g JSP? Others?
    Train 2 Win

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by ubet View Post
    I first read it on snipershide forum about a decade ago., but I thought was hold high. And it was one of their legit posters. It might have even been Frank, but whomever it was had shot A LOT of windshield glass.


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    Yes you aim high because the angle of the glass will turn the bullet down.

    That said auto glass does some funky stuff and it’s really unpredictable. The key to shooting auto glass it dumping a ton of rounds in the same place. You eventually shoot a hole to shoot through.

    Edit: an important caveat to shooting auto glass and holds. You hold high shooting into the car. For the same reason, you hold low shooting out, as the glass will now turn the bullet up.
    Last edited by TMS951; 05-26-22 at 07:08.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by TMS951 View Post
    Yes you aim high because the angle of the glass will turn the bullet down.

    That said auto glass does some funky stuff and it’s really unpredictable. The key to shooting auto glass it dumping a ton of rounds in the same place. You eventually shoot a hole to shoot through.

    Edit: an important caveat to shooting auto glass and holds. You hold high shooting into the car. For the same reason, you hold low shooting out, as the glass will now turn the bullet up.
    Yeah, that's what I thought with regards to auto glass. Now for shooting uphill/downhill......rule of thumb is to aim low for either situation, correct?
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