Self Defense Ammunition question

[markm]

If you’re worried about barrier performance, I ask what barriers would you need to penetrate, what self defense scenario are you picturing exactly??

In the context of deteriorating morals in American Culture, and the rise in racist activity/rioting by hate groups like Black Lives Matter, I don't think it's unrealistic to want an auto glass penetrating round any longer.

For me the concern of long gun defense has expanded beyond the scope of home defense only scenarios. And for the first time, I'm considering options beyond the glorious Mk262 frag master. So mostly automobile material is the barrier consideration for me.

[PappyM3]

There have been lots of good recommendations. But I’m surprised 77gr SMK has been mentioned so much and yet 77gr TMK has not. It isn’t barrier blind, but if you’re not concerned with shooting into or out of cars, then it has extremely reliable fragmentation and does so well into mid-range.

[markm]

There have been lots of good recommendations. But I’m surprised 77gr SMK has been mentioned so much and yet 77gr TMK has not. It isn’t barrier blind, but if you’re not concerned with shooting into or out of cars, then it has extremely reliable fragmentation and does so well into mid-range.

The TMK fragments even better than the equivalent OTM. It would make an outstanding house load especially if a fellow is an overpenetration-phobic character.

[Stickman]

Brother... I didn't even know you COULD hit the concrete at the 7 yard line. I was a Law Enforcement Firearms Instructor for 18 years, and we used to fight over who was forced to qualify Admin. They were frightening.

And I got so many "unqualified supervisor" stories I wouldn't know where to begin. So yes, I feel your pain. To depths of my soul LOL.

Gotta love when admin finally manages to draw their gun and fires off a round directly into the ground three feet in front of them, or the one that tried to do a speed load using his pager instead of his magazine, and it goes on and on.

[Todd.K]

I think a lot of you are over thinking this. No home intruder/cat burglar/rioter/anarchist commie/space zombie is going to brush off a well placed shot of 55 grain hard ball. If you’re worried about barrier performance, I ask what barriers would you need to penetrate, what self defense scenario are you picturing exactly??

Bullets that do well against the auto glass test also do well against bones.

Think about sub optimal angles or an arm pointing a gun at you. Are there places in a home where an intruder might hide behind a counter, refrigerator, or exterior door. People tend to wear multiple layers of thick clothes in the winter in many places.

The option to pick a barrier blind load tends to improve your odds against a worst case scenario and isn’t that big of cost premium for a few go mags.

[Stickman]

In the context of deteriorating morals in American Culture, and the rise in racist activity/rioting by hate groups like Black Lives Matter, I don't think it's unrealistic to want an auto glass penetrating round any longer.

For me the concern of long gun defense has expanded beyond the scope of home defense only scenarios. And for the first time, I'm considering options beyond the glorious Mk262 frag master. So mostly automobile material is the barrier consideration for me.

Windshield glass in funky, not just with the glass, but with the multiple angles often involved.

[T2C]

We have put a lot of people in the dirt with 55g SP. Our brethren in the county have done with same with 55 grain ball (5.56). Just north of us, they use 55g TRU, and have also had solid real world results.

The question is always going to come up of what the "BEST" is, but I'm not sure there is a single best round. Heavier stuff certainly gets the ooohs and ahhhs, but like I said above, a lot of Gods work has been successfully done with cheaper alternatives.

We are always going to jump in with the barrier penetration questions when we discuss ammo, but I'm looking at barrier penetration as an issue at the Stick Compound, I'll bring 7.62 nato out to play.

I prefer M193 55g FMJ. It's accurate enough and will get the job done.

I can think of three occasions, in the Midwest, in which a violent suspect was quickly stopped with M193 55g FMJ fired from a 16" carbine. Those shootings all occurred inside of 30 yards. I can think of one occasion in which a violent suspect was quickly stopped with Federal 55g JSP fired from a 14.5" carbine. That shooting occurred inside a walk in closet.

I chronographed training and duty ammunition using an Armalite patrol carbine with 16" barrel for those that are interested.

Federal M193 55g FMJ - AV-3065 fps, ES/SD-49/19 fps

Remington 55g FMJ - AV-2847 fps, ES/SD-61/21 fps

Winchester 55g JSP - AV-2949 fps, ES/SD-46/17 fps

Federal 55g JSP - AV-2953 fps, ES/SD-86/42 fps

[markm]

Windshield glass in funky, not just with the glass, but with the multiple angles often involved.

Yeah. All I know is hold slightly low if shooting in from the front of the vehicle. I never tried bonded into auto glass with 5.56 though.

[T2C]

Yeah. All I know is hold slightly low if shooting in from the front of the vehicle. I never tried bonded into auto glass with 5.56 though.

If you get a chance to test bonded 5.56mm ammunition on car windshields, I would certainly be interested in your results, especially angle of impact on the outside of the windshield and angle of exit inside the vehicle.

[markm]

If you get a chance to test bonded 5.56mm ammunition on car windshields, I would certainly be interested in your results, especially angle of impact on the outside of the windshield and angle of exit inside the vehicle.

Someone here has probably done this (LE guys I'd guess). I've only shot auto glass once years back, and I didn't have bonded. Everything 5.56 sucked... even M855.

I can't remember where I saw heard that you hold a little low for straight on car windshield shots... but it wasn't some youtuber douchebag or anything. It was a legit source.