Uvalde, Texas elementary school shooting: 19 children, 2 teachers killed

[WillBrink]

I would assume at 12:44 as he was the LEO who took down the shooter.

This, along with Parkland, is somewhat ironic. Everybody wants to be a gangster until it's time to do gangster ****. Everybody got patrol rifles and MRAPs. Everybody got plates. Everybody did "active shooter response" training. Everybody rolls out in the Tac pants and boots. Everybody is a wannabe commando now. Yet, when it hits the fan, we have this...

ETA - this BORTAC guy is as stud. All day, every day.

Still confused. I read the tac team shows up almost an hour into that cluster, they stack up, and after some problems breaching, do the deed on the goblin. Not that someone took a shield off a bunch off guys milling around and goes in and does what needed doing. Still in need of clarity.

[glocktogo]

Up until Columbine that was the SOP for most departments- form a perimeter and wait for SWAT. Active shooter training gained traction after Columbine where the first units on scene went in. We did active shooter training a couple of times a year at the local high school. 1 to 4 officers forming up and going inside- no room to room clearing just moving to the sound of gunfire. The object was to get to the shooter and stop the killing ASAP.

OK, that explains the confusion. They were not LEOs he'd shot at. But, my Q on SOP of an active shooter remains. I'd really thought post Colombine, other than a very few PDs (like that POS in Parkland who altered there SOP from "shall" to "may" engage an active shooter...), they are to engage the shooter immediately no matter who is on scene.

It sounds like we can at least say that didn't happen. Why, is unclear at this time.

We trained that way after Columbine too. This would have been early 2000s for my department when the dynamic changed. There were three schools in my jurisdiction, middle, HS, and a private. Most of our training was done at the middle school because our officer was stationed there. The county SO had the officer in the HS. Looking back, it would have been nice to have more joint training. Unfortunately what basically happened was each dept did their own trainings.

Exactly. Started with “Hall Boss”, diamond formation as soon as you had 4 officers. That morphed to two officers and last time I was 10-8, if backup is beyond visual range, you move to the sound of gunfire and execute the mission. In all the above you stepped over bodies and put lead on target until the perp is neutralized, even if the bodies you stepped over were other officers.

Out****ingstanding! Bravo Zulu BORTAC Agent!

If I make a time machine, first travel I am sending Christian Craighead to Uvalde.

Exactly who I thought of the second I saw the pics above.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...y-podcast.html

There are still real men left in this world, and we’re better for having them!

Unbelievable. I remember our training officer telling us that the “going home at the end of your shift is the most important thing” is utter bullsh*t. The order of whose lives are most important are 1. The victims/hostages, 2. You, the officer and a very distant 3. The suspect. Being off the job since 2004 I can’t speak to current mindset among LEOs and the officers I worked with have either retired or been in an admin job for a while so I don’t have any inroads either.

Same here. My last Undersheriff would’ve skinned us alive if we sat on our hands while little kids died.

"Going home at the end of the shift" is the mantra of why you train hard and must never be complacent. It also means don't be stupid and reckless and act like you're Chuck Norris or Arnold Schwarzenegger. Cops do not need to seek death needlessly. However, part of the job is putting your life on the line. That means running towards danger in order to save others even if it costs your life.

I think most cops know this; unfortunately, right now, there's two kinds of police officer that is causing a LOT of damage to law enforcement: The hard charging knuckleheads whose answer to everything is either "slam them on the pavement" or "shoot them", and the mild mannered community policers who want to make a difference but can't truly face danger.

This situation is the one distinct instance where “shoot them” is the only correct answer, and none of them did it for over an hour. You go the **** in and you either kill that SOB or you don’t walk out of there. Anything less is grounds for hanging up your hat and slinking off into well deserved obscurity, forever.

[WillBrink]

Exactly. Started with “Hall Boss”, diamond formation as soon as you had 4 officers. That morphed to two officers and last time I was 10-8, if backup is beyond visual range, you move to the sound of gunfire and execute the mission. In all the above you stepped over bodies and put lead on target until the perp is neutralized, even if the bodies you stepped over were other officers.



Out****ingstanding! Bravo Zulu BORTAC Agent!

Still confused and waiting for clarification on that. I'm reading two very different accounts. If dude showed up, took a ballistic shield off of the tac wanna be milling around, and he and one other went in and did the deed, he's a no chit F-ing hero stud, and I don't throw such terms around lightly. Two most over used terms are "hero" and "expert" and I use either rarely.

[mack7.62]

I thought the shooter was supposed to be poor, where did he get the money to buy two AR-15's, also I am hearing the one used in the shooting was a Daniel Defense, not a cheap firearm.

[SteyrAUG]

They all gotta go, they are no longer worthy of being cops, every single one of them needs to be fired and blacklisted from ever serving in any capacity of public trust ever again.

If proven out, I agree. I understand things can just go f'ing awful, but no more Parklands. And by that I mean no more cops guarding the parking lot while kids are being shot.

[WillBrink]

If proven out, I agree. I understand things can just go f'ing awful, but no more Parklands. And by that I mean no more cops guarding the parking lot while kids are being shot.

I will never get over that, but as not one POS from that event paid a price for it, I fear little was learned from it. Most times the fault is with the goblin exclusively, that one is start to finish adult fail on so many levels. My heart breaks just thinking about that one.

[glocktogo]

I will never get over that, but as not one POS from that event paid a price for it, I fear little was learned from it. Most times the fault is with the goblin exclusively, that one is start to finish adult fail on so many levels. My heart breaks just thinking about that one.

That’s the biggest issue. No one ever pays a price. You can’t keep doing the same things over and over again and expect different results.

[tomme boy]

You know what really shows these cops need a new job. The one woman that was handcuffed was uncuffed by a local cops. hen the cops looked the other way she ran into the school and grabbed her 2 kids.

[ubet]

They have no duty to save civilians. They have no requirement to run into danger. But yes, those cops should be charged as accomplices in the murders


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[titsonritz]

If proven out, I agree. I understand things can just go f'ing awful, but no more Parklands. And by that I mean no more cops guarding the parking lot while kids are being shot.

Sounds like it might be worse than that.