Uvalde, Texas elementary school shooting: 19 children, 2 teachers killed

[jsbhike]

Should have reported a man with a camera who is filming cops and yelling he wouldn't provide ID.

[Sam]

Lay off Daniel Defense. That's all.


Paul Howe had blistering comments about the responses in Uvalde. It was on his Facebook page, I'll try to link it here, don't know if it will work or not.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=41...068&aggr_v_ids[0]=413873853936068&notif_id=1653735780160878&notif_t=watch_follower_video&ref=notif

[john armond]

Pics show they PD had a tac team. Would it be unusual they didn't have a shield?

From time line above also:

11.31: Gunman is now in the parking lot of the school hiding in between vehicles, shooting at the building

11.32: School resource officer who arrives in a patrol car after hearing 911 call about truck crash drives past the shooter

11.33: Gunman enters the school and begins shooting into room 111/room 112. He shoots more than 100 rounds

11.35: Three police officers enter the same propped-open door as the suspect from the Uvalde PD. They were later followed by another four, making a total of seven officers on the scene Three initial officers went directly to the door and got grazing wounds from him while the door was closed. They hang back

11.37: Another 16 rounds fired inside the classroom by the gunman

11.51: Police sergeant and USB agents arrive

12.03: Officers continue to arrive in the hallway. As many as 19 officers in that hallway at that time At the same time, a girl from inside the classroom calls 911 and whispers that she is in room 112

12.10pm: The same girl calls back and advises 'there are multiple dead'

12.13pm: The same girl calls again

12.16pm: The same girl calls 911 for the fourth time in 13 minutes asking for help

12.15pm: BORTAC (SWAT) members arrive with shields

12.16pm: The same unidentified girl calls 911 and says there are ‘8-9 students alive’ in classroom 112

12.19pm: A different child from classroom 111 calls. She hangs up when another student tells her to in order to be quiet

12.21pm: Gunman fires again

12.26pm: One of the girls who previously called 911 calls back again. She says the shooter has just ‘shot at the door’

12.43pm: The girl on that girl is still on the line. She says 'please send the police now'

12.50pm: Police finally breach the door using keys from the janitor and kill gunman

Q: Was the time BORTAC arrived to finally taking the goblin out due their being told to hold back or simply the time needed to prep? Other?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-shooting.html

In 2010 when I left the PD, no one in surrounding except possibly the SO had them. They were considered a SWAT only item. I just checked with my old Chief. No local PDs have them that he knows of to this day. The SO may though.

I also talked to my buddy on the SWAT team for the fed agency I work for (My job is a fed LEO position, but I’m not really doing any LEO work as far as I’m concerned, especially compared to being a street cop). He said we have them but they are “old and janky” and don’t train with them much. He also said that SOP is the shield man is only supposed to be a shield man and doesn’t use a sidearm, so no one ever wants to be the shield guy. They are cumbersome and awkward, however if in a gun fight he would love to have one.

As far as the SOP thing, that is because the powers that be, that have no idea about anything, are making all the rules.

ETA: We are an extremely reactive, not proactive department…a long time complaint of mine.

[WillBrink]

In 2010 when I left the PD, no one in surrounding except possibly the SO had them. They were considered a SWAT only item. I just checked with my old Chief. No local PDs have them that he knows of to this day. The SO may though.

I also talked to my buddy on the SWAT team for the fed agency I work for (My job is a fed LEO position, but I’m not really doing any LEO work as far as I’m concerned, especially compared to being a street cop). He said we have them but they are “old and janky” and don’t train with them much. He also said that SOP is the shield man is only supposed to be a shield man and doesn’t use a sidearm, so no one ever wants to be the shield guy. They are cumbersome and awkward, however if in a gun fight he would love to have one.

As far as the SOP thing, that is because the powers that be, that have no idea about anything, are making all the rules.

ETA: We are an extremely reactive, not proactive department…a long time complaint of mine.

I can understand that. But, they supposedly have a SWAT team. Someone said "show me a 10 man PD and I will show you a 9 member SWAT team." Meaning, everyone wants to kit up on ninja stuff, few actually train and ready to be SWAT when the SHTF. Regardless, you think they'd have a shield. See their SWAT team:

https://www.facebook.com/uvaldepd/ph...6614501371887/

[jsbhike]

Lay off Daniel Defense. That's all.


Paul Howe had blistering comments about the responses in Uvalde. It was on his Facebook page, I'll try to link it here, don't know if it will work or not.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=41...068&aggr_v_ids[0]=413873853936068¬if_id=1653735780160878¬if_t=watch_follower_video&ref=notif

Link worked and that was pretty good.

Kudos to him for including arming teachers and the mention of cops that can't shoot don't need actual firearms.

[WillBrink]

Would explain a few things. The meat eaters told the locals to F off and went in finally....That's depressing to read in the extreme and I hope it's anti LE media spin vs reality.

Regardless, this statement confuses me:

"The on-site commander 'was convinced at the time that there was no more threat to the children and that the subject was barricaded and that they had time to organize' to get into the classroom, McCraw said."

Either, he assumed they were all dead or thought there where no kids in the room with the shooter and he was isolated? Meanwhile, there's kids in the room calling on their phone asking for help...

Is there another interpretation of that statement I'm missing?


Federal customs agents DEFIED local Texas police chief to kill school shooter: SWAT team overruled dithering cops and burst into class to shoot gunman dead when he jumped out of closet after killing 19 children

Pete Arredondo, chief of police for the Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District, had stopped at least 19 officers from breaking into the school

Steven McCraw, director of Texas Department of Public Safety, said Arredondo mistakenly believed the gunman was contained and no longer a threat

Two federal sources told NBC that teams of border patrol agents from their tactical division were on the scene by 12:00-12:15pm, but told to wait

They stood around for 30 minutes before taking matters into their own hands and deciding to storm the school

Arredondo is yet to appear at any press briefings but officials are facing increasingly angry questions about their handling of the attack

By HARRIET ALEXANDER FOR DAILYMAIL.COM, PUBLISHED: 23:18 EDT, 27 May 2022 | UPDATED: 05:10 EDT, 28 May 2022

[T2C]

I performed a considerable number of school security assessments after the Columbine shooting incident and provided templates to school administrators for plans to 1) harden schools as targets and 2) action plans for response to an active shooter incident. It's not rocket science, it's a matter of evaluating information pertaining to security and thinking about what options are available.

From a tactical perspective, several questions about this incident come to mind.

1) What material was the classroom door made out of and was it the only door? Were bullets fired by the suspect passing through the door? Were there glass side lights on each side or a glass pane over the door?

2 What type of lock was on the classroom door, a pass set type or dead bolt? What type of door frame and hinges were attached to and surrounding the door?

3) What materials were the walls surrounding the classroom door made out of and were bullets from the suspect passing through the walls when the first officers arrived at the door?

4) Were there removable ceiling tiles over the door and inside the classroom?

5) Were there classroom windows accessible from outside the building?

6) At what time was it decided to locate the school custodian? The custodian should know more about the physical layout of the building, they should have keys and be the most knowledgeable about alternative entrances to rooms, hallways, etc.

These 6 questions should be evaluated in a matter of seconds, not minutes or hours.


The after-action assessment should be detailed and brutally honest.

Some people immediately start thinking about specialty equipment when they start the problem-solving process. Until specific features of the building and room where the active shooter is located are identified, it's difficult to assess what could or should be done to reach the active shooter.

People often ask why LEO weren't issued specialty equipment at the outset. I sat in on a meeting where Command staff wanted to identify funding and issue a hooligan tool to each of the patrol officers and provide them training, so they could breach the outside doors on schools in their jurisdiction. A few people were butt hurt after I asked why an officer couldn't back their squad car through the glass doors to enter the school. I had already measured the hallways in several schools and once entry was made, there was room to drive an SUV down a hallway if it was needed to punch through a wall or doorway.

This above is not the only solution, just one idea. Many LEO I trained over a 20+ year period were reluctant to break things and destroy property, because that option was never considered during their training. Many rooms and buildings are just a big box, generally accessible from points of entry other than doors. Once victims start dying, you can't be afraid to break things to gain access to an active shooter and I consider that a training issue that would cost little or nothing to address.

From a scene management perspective, if you are an Incident Commander, command.

[john armond]

I can understand that. But, they supposedly have a SWAT team. Someone said "show me a 10 man PD and I will show you a 9 member SWAT team." Meaning, everyone wants to kit up on ninja stuff, few actually train and ready to be SWAT when the SHTF. Regardless, you think they'd have a shield. See their SWAT team:

https://www.facebook.com/uvaldepd/ph...6614501371887/

Agree with what you said. When I got out we were still wearing our regular blues. During the summer we did get to wear polos and BDU pants or shorts (hot southern area) depending on what we were doing for the day. It wasn’t all Tactical Timmy though. I did keep a spare vest (no hard plates unfortunately) and shotgun in the trunk though.

[jsbhike]

Regardless, this statement confuses me:

"The on-site commander 'was convinced at the time that there was no more threat to the children and that the subject was barricaded and that they had time to organize' to get into the classroom, McCraw said."

Either, he assumed they were all dead or thought there where no kids in the room with the shooter and he was isolated? Meanwhile, there's kids in the room calling on their phone asking for help...

Is there another interpretation of that statement I'm missing?

I don't think so.

Not sure if it was an article, the Rick Gore Youtube critiques, or multiples, but the "all the kids were dead inside" claim got debunked by numerous phone calls over(iirc) app. 20 minutes made by a female trapped in the room who was indicating she and others were still alive.

[T2C]

Not sure if it was an article, the Rick Gore Youtube critiques, or multiples, but the "all the kids were dead inside" claim got debunked by numerous phone calls over(iirc) app. 20 minutes made by a female trapped in the room who was indicating she and others were still alive.

Unless you have visual confirmation that the victims appear to be deceased, you should assume that they are alive.