Uvalde, Texas elementary school shooting: 19 children, 2 teachers killed

[WillBrink]

She commented there were 8 or 9 still alive & could hear gunfire on the call...the lives that could have been possibly saved from the wounded / bleeding out if they immediately breached is haunting as well. Hard pill to swallow.

Can you imagine being one of the parents and not knowing if that was one of your kids?

They did their best to spin the Parkland event as not a total cluster from the top down to protect their a$$, but no one buys it, nor should they.

I hope it's not like that, I so hope not.

[ubet]

I have no idea how true this is, and am skeptical but it also wouldn’t surprise me. https://offgridsurvival.com/did-fede...ass-shootings/


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[Sam]

I have no idea how true this is, and am skeptical but it also wouldn’t surprise me. https://offgridsurvival.com/did-fede...ass-shootings/


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There is a whole thread dedicated to that topic. Let's keep that out of this thread. It's call "off topic".

[ABNAK]

That's one hell of an assumption to make for which the top cop spokesmen who spoke admits it was a mistake.

We don't know yet what they knew and didn't to work with, but that seems like an assumption that's not going to end well regardless.

It may come to show via autopsy etc that some where alive for X amount of time and had they gotten in the room sooner, high liklyhood of survival.

Conjecture on my end, but it seems a key aspect hinges on the availability of a shield and how long they wait to use it to get in the room and kill that POS.

First we we given the impression it took an hour to get a shield, which didn't make much sense. Now it seems like it was there (all along?) and actively not being deployed cuz it was decided everyone in the room was dead so why rush???!

Whether it actually makes any sense once we have the details, that's never going to sound right I suspect.

No, you make valid points. It won't sound right. Ever. Hopefully this is a tragic occurrence which can be learned from.

I want to say up front that it was not my ass running in there and getting shot at through the walls (!), so I respectfully refrain from criticizing. Three of those cops were grazed or lightly wounded in the process, correct? Of course not being able to return fire as you might hit kids. Can't throw a frag in either, or blow it with an airstrike or Javelin. So it appears they did actually run towards gunfire, but it ended up being a disaster. Definitely "combat" but one-sided.....the good guys couldn't respond how one might in Iraq or Afghanistan.

I am going to temper any criticism of the first-line cops because it was definitely a "hot LZ" so to speak. In hindsight (always being 20/20 of course) they made a bad decision for leaving that POS barricaded, based on crappy assumptions. It appears they did indeed chase the gunfire but were "ambushed" sort of. I think the local yocals' reaction in this case undoubtedly outshines the Parkland debacle.

[Renegade]

I could have missed something or looking at stuff wrong, but I don't think shotgun haircut BP guy is also ball cap/scalp graze/shot the turd BP agent.

Correct two different agents

[glocktogo]

If "we" have learned one damned thing about responding to these situations, it's react as quickly and aggressively as possible.

I can't believe the shit bags standing around outside with duty gear and rifles. Effectively running security for the killer!!! Everyone should be held accountable for inaction.

I know it's easy to say from the safety of my office behind this computer, but I'd think if there was ever a time and a place that one would be willing to risk losing their life or serious injury as an LEO, such an event would be that time.

I do understand however that if the goblin has locked himself in a room with a harden door, is sending rnds through the walls, you can't return the favor due to kids being in the room, and you don't have a shield, you're just going to get killed for no reason and need to find another route.

That's giving benefit of the doubt to them as to what is claimed happened. But, now hearing the guys with the training and the shield may have been there for some time and instructed not to go in, well, then my empathy meter drops rapidly. If it turns out there was some territorial ego thing happening between them, they all deserve to be fired at a minimum, orange jumpsuits for all if possible.

If it didn't happen after Parkland, doubt anything will happen here either. Just blame the gun and move on...

You don’t really have to wait to know how this will wash out. No one will be held accountable. They never are. How many dead kids does it take to get someone put in prison or bankrupted? It doesn’t look like we’ll ever know. Is losing a job enough? Not even close, especially when many of them either appeal and get their jobs back, or simply get hired in a similar position at another agency or school.

The only people who ever pay are the bereaved loved ones, and somewhere down the road, taxpayers.

We can change all the policies and SOP’s in the world, but that’s not what solves problems like this. Early intervention is the only worthwhile preventative measure. Once it gets to a shooter coming on school grounds, the only effective recourse is swift and decisive violent action. Policies and SOP’s can’t provide that, only trained and determined men and women can.

[Wake27]

Somethings we all need to keep in mind, the person that propped the door open apparently was responding to the crash. Most likely wanted an easy way in/out if someone was hurt. That’s not an unreasonable assumption for that faculty member to have made. ETA - apparently later reports have corrected this so disregard.

Also, LE have been under siege for years. With all of the shit they’ve taken (to include tons of officers killed in the line of duty), it’s a reasonable expectation to think some departments are filled with poor performers.


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[ABNAK]

The idiot teacher who left that door ajar should be fired.

Wake27 I get the assumption that teacher made but it ended up being disastrous. Willful intent? No. Negligence? Absolutely.

[john armond]

I left LE at the end of 2009, and back then it was SOP for us to not wait for back up. You arrived on scene and you just went to the sound of the gunfire. Sure it might be a one way trip for you but that’s the way it’s gotta be.

Your job at that moment in time was to end the killing by whatever means you can.

Same when I left the PD in 2010. Rapidly move toward the gunfire and attempt to neutralize the target. You weren’t supposed to stop and help injured along the way. I’ll say it again…it was stressed to us, that if the shooter’s attention was directed towards us, he wouldn’t be shooting kids.

[Renegade]

Somethings we all need to keep in mind, the person that propped the door open apparently was responding to the crash. Most likely wanted an easy way in/out if someone was hurt. That’s not an unreasonable assumption for that faculty member to have made.

No - door was opened before that according to todays presser

My guess is smoke break, propped open to not get locked out, then forgot to lock it when came back in.