Uvalde, Texas elementary school shooting: 19 children, 2 teachers killed

[gsd2053]

Is that true?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tex...epartment/amp/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dai...-shooting.html

Judge on responsibility of Sheriff's
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nyt...olice.amp.html

[glocktogo]

I've read all of this thread plus all of the thread on P-F which has actually been far more informational. Time lines also don't really matter to the point of entry into the building vs entry into the room. The room would've ended it but being inside the building is not moot because had they not gone in to the building at all, he could've kept wandering.

None of that makes up for all the BS they’ve been slinging since it got out they took TWELVE MINUTES to get to a school with an active shooter, and over an HOUR to neutralize the active threat. Not to mention multiple 911 calls from the rooms the shooter controlled and they still didn’t want to breach.

If they didn’t get the information, then that’s just another abject failure on their part. I’d rather see that a half dozen cops got killed being heroes, than 19 kids and two teachers got killed, with it being highly likely that one or more were killed or bled out waiting for an effective response that came too late.

There is nothing redemptive in this debacle for Uvalde officials and officers. Nothing at all. So let’s not pretend there is.

[themonk]

No rifles? what about the multiple crowd controllers that had body armors, plates AND RIFLES? those were the ones holding back the parents, even pepper sprayed some parents. Maybe the rifles were in the wrong hands. There are videos and pictures of that.

Sam, I agree. I am just regurgitating a conversation from someone with knowledge. But he had mentioned that to me that they didnt have patrol rifles on Wed. I would assume that they were already hold up in the school hallway and those doing crowd control were from outside jurisdictions or other agencies. Talking to folks that I know from Texas they mentioned that Uvalde is very small and would just have a handful of cops.

[Wake27]

None of that makes up for all the BS they’ve been slinging since it got out they took TWELVE MINUTES to get to a school with an active shooter, and over an HOUR to neutralize the active threat. Not to mention multiple 911 calls from the rooms the shooter controlled and they still didn’t want to breach. I don't know the town nor have done the research to know if 12 minutes is fast or not for that area. Not at all defending how long it took to kill the guy.

If they didn’t get the information, then that’s just another abject failure on their part. I’d rather see that a half dozen cops got killed being heroes, than 19 kids and two teachers got killed, with it being highly likely that one or more were killed or bled out waiting for an effective response that came too late. I'd rather see cops killed too, think I posted in this thread a ways back something along the lines of the kids lives should have been higher priority than the officers on the scene.

There is nothing redemptive in this debacle for Uvalde officials and officers. Nothing at all. So let’s not pretend there is. The shooter having access to the whole building would have been worse. I'm not defending the inaction but I also don't see an argument where having no LE in the hall would have been a better plan.

I'm honestly not sure how this is a disagreement.

[LowSpeed_HighDrag]

None of that makes up for all the BS they’ve been slinging since it got out they took TWELVE MINUTES to get to a school with an active shooter, and over an HOUR to neutralize the active threat. Not to mention multiple 911 calls from the rooms the shooter controlled and they still didn’t want to breach.

If they didn’t get the information, then that’s just another abject failure on their part. I’d rather see that a half dozen cops got killed being heroes, than 19 kids and two teachers got killed, with it being highly likely that one or more were killed or bled out waiting for an effective response that came too late.

There is nothing redemptive in this debacle for Uvalde officials and officers. Nothing at all. So let’s not pretend there is.

What is the response time you require for the city I work in?

I can only drive as fast as I can in mid day traffic to the school that's all the way across the city.

You don't know my city, just like you don't know Uvalde. What is the response time you require?

I'll tell you, 12 minutes is pretty damn fast in many situations.

[T2C]

Most reports say that officers immediately pursued the shooter inside but pulled out after taking fire. There have been other reports of officers getting kids out of the building, but I don’t know how deliberate that was vs them just running inside as individuals to get their own kids (only the latter has been reported AFAIK, hopefully the former is true as well).


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The thoughts of many, including a lot of LEO, is that the initial responders should not have broken contact and kept pressure on the active shooter.

[ubet]

I’m going to be honest, every cop there that didn’t go in, that listened to the orders to stand down should be charged with 21 counts of accessory to murder.


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[WillBrink]

What is the response time you require for the city I work in?

I can only drive as fast as I can in mid day traffic to the school that's all the way across the city.

You don't know my city, just like you don't know Uvalde. What is the response time you require?

I'll tell you, 12 minutes is pretty damn fast in many situations.

I believe first contact was even faster, but not 100% sure at this point. The real issue seems to be what T2C says:

The thoughts of many, including a lot of LEO, is that the initial responders should not have broken contact and kept pressure on the active shooter.

[Wake27]

The thoughts of many, including a lot of LEO, is that the initial responders should not have broken contact and kept pressure on the active shooter.

No disagreement there either. I’m not at all on their side, but I don’t think this was absolute worse case, sad as that is.

Also while I’ve done some armchair quarterbacking and others have admitted when they’ve done it as well, we should be cautious about how far that goes. Not every tactic pulled from the movies would’ve been helpful here…


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[glocktogo]

What is the response time you require for the city I work in?

I can only drive as fast as I can in mid day traffic to the school that's all the way across the city.

You don't know my city, just like you don't know Uvalde. What is the response time you require?

I'll tell you, 12 minutes is pretty damn fast in many situations.

Uvalde is a 7.7 square mile town with 16K residents. It's 1.3 miles from the Uvalde PD, and 1.7 miles from the sheriff's office. It's 3.3 miles to the USBP station.The farthest point in the town from Robb elementary is about 5.5 miles, most of which is covered by US Hwys 83 or 90.

I don't know how big your town is, but in Uvalde 12 minutes should be considered very slow for a call of that type.