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Thread: 16” 6.5 Creedmoor barrel worth it?

  1. #81
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    I was tempted to buy some of that Aguila ammo last week, but I wasn’t sure how reliable it would be. Now I’m glad I didn’t buy any of it. I found some S&B 140gr FMJ for the same price as the Aguila, so that’s what I’ve been using to function test. Once I get everything dialed in, and the weather clears up, I plan to run Federal Match ammo at the range.

  2. #82
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    Another update:

    I went to a local 25 yard indoor range to do more function testing, and dial in a rudimentary zero to get me on paper. Once again using S&B 140 gr. FMJ, I started having failures to extract on the second box of ammo. The spent case wouldn’t eject, and the next round would get stuck underneath as it was being pushed forward by the bcg. This happened a total of 5 times, with the last iteration resulting in a stuck bcg. Not wanting to mortar my rifle at an indoor range, I packed up my stuff and left. The cases that I picked up off the floor didn’t have any chipped or torn rims, so I’m leaning toward over pressure issues of some kind.

    I’m starting to have serious doubts about this endeavor. I’ve built three AR308 type rifles before, all chambered in 308 or M118LR, and all of them ran smooth from the start. On another note, this particular range had Ballistic Advantage modern series 308 barrels priced at 50% off. I took that as a sign to grab a 16” mid-length, and an 18” rifle length.

    Last edited by Hammer_Man; 04-25-23 at 00:05. Reason: Pic added

  3. #83
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    anyone still doing anything with this project idea?

    I had traded off the Aero M5 that I had built this concept off of, kept the 6.5 barrel with the intent of doing something different with it but the guy I traded the M5 with wanted to use it as trade for something I had in my shop so long story short, I have it back and now I have it with the 16in 308 Hanson barrel and this 16in 6.5 Hanson barrel that I kept. I'm a big fan of the youtube guys BrassFacts and Hop and a few others that are more "civilian gear review and shtf concepts without having a military background" as that pertains more to me and those to afforementioned channels have been doing alot with Battle Rifles lately, along with a few other channels and they discuss 6.5 but barrel life for 6.5 is about 1/3 of 308 so most of them have decided to go with 308 based.

    I'm back and forth now. I'd like to stick with 6.5 as my B14 HMR setup is in 6.5 and having one caliber to deal with would make logistics easier. But 308 is more prevalent than 6.5, amongst the "group" that if things were to collapse I'd need to rely on, ie immediate family, cousins and fellow farmers, all mostly have FAL's and M1A's when it comes to 308 Semi Autos, plus 556 AR's so 308 makes sense to have if that is factored in.

    I've got a 3-18 Primary Arms GLx with the 6.5 specific reticle that I'm wanting to take off the B14 to put the 4.5-27 GLx(fyi, for the money, that glass is HARD to beat) so if I stick with 6.5 for this project, I'll put that 3-18 otherwise, I'm leaning more towards a 2-10x36 Credo and 308.
    JF Arms Company - Owner
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  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwfuhrman View Post
    anyone still doing anything with this project idea?

    I had traded off the Aero M5 that I had built this concept off of, kept the 6.5 barrel with the intent of doing something different with it but the guy I traded the M5 with wanted to use it as trade for something I had in my shop so long story short, I have it back and now I have it with the 16in 308 Hanson barrel and this 16in 6.5 Hanson barrel that I kept. I'm a big fan of the youtube guys BrassFacts and Hop and a few others that are more "civilian gear review and shtf concepts without having a military background" as that pertains more to me and those to afforementioned channels have been doing alot with Battle Rifles lately, along with a few other channels and they discuss 6.5 but barrel life for 6.5 is about 1/3 of 308 so most of them have decided to go with 308 based.

    I'm back and forth now. I'd like to stick with 6.5 as my B14 HMR setup is in 6.5 and having one caliber to deal with would make logistics easier. But 308 is more prevalent than 6.5, amongst the "group" that if things were to collapse I'd need to rely on, ie immediate family, cousins and fellow farmers, all mostly have FAL's and M1A's when it comes to 308 Semi Autos, plus 556 AR's so 308 makes sense to have if that is factored in.

    I've got a 3-18 Primary Arms GLx with the 6.5 specific reticle that I'm wanting to take off the B14 to put the 4.5-27 GLx(fyi, for the money, that glass is HARD to beat) so if I stick with 6.5 for this project, I'll put that 3-18 otherwise, I'm leaning more towards a 2-10x36 Credo and 308.
    JW, you got a lot to think about I see. 6.5 used to be pretty rare but it’s getting more available. Not 308 by any means but should bit a lot more with each passing day. I think it’s good to own both. So build yourself two great builds and let us know how they shoot.

    PB
    "Air Force / Policeman / Fireman / Man of God / Friend of mine / R.I.P. Steve Lamy"

  5. #85
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    kinda the way I'm leaning. Receivers have gotten cheap enough that since I've got the extra barrel already, I may just grab a spare stripped receiver and handguard from Aero and put one of the extra barrels in it and setup 2 different styles of builds. 308 for a "battle rifle" with a LPVO (1-8 or 1-10) and the 6.5 with the 2-10 or 3-18
    JF Arms Company - Owner
    07/02 FFL/SOT

    Sword & Shield Training Group - SSTG
    - Be the Sword & Shield for your community thru knowledge and skills.

    ----------------------
    EMT - Parkview DeKalb EMS

    13 years of serving Northeast Indiana's citizens.
    ----------------------
    Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwfuhrman View Post
    I'm back and forth now. I'd like to stick with 6.5 as my B14 HMR setup is in 6.5 and having one caliber to deal with would make logistics easier. But 308 is more prevalent than 6.5, amongst the "group" that if things were to collapse I'd need to rely on, ie immediate family, cousins and fellow farmers, all mostly have FAL's and M1A's when it comes to 308 Semi Autos, plus 556 AR's so 308 makes sense to have if that is factored in.
    LOL yeah, that's called the SHTF!

    I agree 100% on commonality/availability of ammunition, surely in the situation already referred to. Also, in times of perhaps the .gov cranking the screws on the gun/ammunition industry. Shortages can occur (unfortunately) in many situations. Best to stock the more "available" calibers. Rifle > pistol as far as priority.

    5.56mm, .308, 7.62x39 (in that order). Those are like the long-gun "staples of your diet"......protein, vegetable, and a starch!
    11C2P '83-'87
    Airborne Infantry
    F**k China!

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pappabear View Post
    JW, you got a lot to think about I see. 6.5 used to be pretty rare but it’s getting more available. Not 308 by any means but should bit a lot more with each passing day. I think it’s good to own both. So build yourself two great builds and let us know how they shoot.

    PB
    My thinking too. I have both .308 and 6.5 ARs, built both.
    The .308 was a “Societal Collapse” obtainable ammo thing, the 6.5 has a 20” barrel and is a pretty fair “precision at distance” gun.
    I had initial problems with feeding/extraction which was a crap BCG. No problems after obtaining legit BCGs for both guns.
    A true "Gun Guy" (or gal) should have familiarity and a modicum of proficiency with most all firearms platforms.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    A 16" 6.5 Creedmoor barrel significantly out-performs a 20" .308 barrel.
    I have been shooting "short" 6.5 barrels for about 4 years now. I think that they shine in the 16" area and over 20".
    All depends on your application.
    FWIW, some elaboration on Failure2Stop's post that he posted elsewhere:

    *NOTE: "MRAD"="MILS", I just prefer the technical accuracy of "MRAD" over "MILS" in writing.
    Distances in yards. Projectile weight in grains. Projectile velocity in feet per second.

    Comparatively, a 14.5” 6.5mm Creedmoor will show about the same drop correction as a 20” 7.62 shooting 175gr ammo, but with about 1/3 less wind drift inside 800 yds. The 6.5 projectile is also way less affected by trans-sonic (and trans-sonic happens at a further distance), making those longer pokes easier. That’s mostly applicable to those that carry a 20” 7.62 rifle that meets their range requirements, as they can go to a significantly shorter and lighter system and meet or exceed their current performance.
    Personally, I really like 16” for 6.5 CM, not only for avoiding NFA hassles, but also for the velocity gain over 14.5” barrels.
    Once you go past 16”, I’m just not seeing the benefit to the weight and length until you hit about 22”. With a 22” barrel I will be in the 2750 ft/s area with 140gr Berger AR Hybrid projectiles, which is really the next step up in practical performance over the 2500-2600ish ft/s of the 14.5-16" (projectile and load dependent, of course).

    My 16” shooting 140s will show 10 mrad of drop at 1,000 and 2 mrad of wind correction for a 10mph wind from 3:00.
    22” will show 8.7 mrad of drop and 1.9 mrad of wind.
    20” 7.62 with M118LR will show 11.6 and 2.8
    16” 7.62 with M118LR will be 12.8 and 3.0

    My 16” is a 5mph gun out to 800 (+.1 at 900 to 1000, +.2 at 1100, and adding an additional .1 sequentially past that)
    My 22” is a 5mph gun out to 1,000 (+.1 at 1100 to 1200, increasing by .1 every 100 yards past that)
    That 6” of barrel difference is needed to get any useful gain in performance for wind or drop.

    When it comes to speed drop, my 16 is 1.8 (covers 300 to 650 with .2 error) 22” is 2.1 (covers 300 to 800 with .2 error).

    For ranging error, I’m 0.5 mrad difference between 800 to 835 with 16”, and 800 to 840 with 22”.

    For midrange center hold, putting 1.5 mrad on the gun will cover 295-365 with +/-0.3 mrad error with 16”, while 1.3 on a 22” will cover 295-380 with +/- 0.3 error.

    For midrange dial/hold patterns; with the 16”, dialing 2.1 mils onto the gun will make the center crosshair 400, 1 mrad will be 500, and 2 mrad will be 600, with a 0.1 error between 400 and 600 –OR- dial 3.1 on and hold under 1 mrad for 400 and over 1 mrad for 600.
    22”: dial on 1.8 mrad and center will be 400, 1 mrad=500, 2 mrad=600, 3 mrad=700 with a 0.1 mrad error -OR- dial on 2.8 and hold under 1 mrad for 400, center for 500, 1 mrad for 600, and 2 mrad for 700.

    From comparison, the 14.5” 6.5 will be a 4.5 MPH gun to 800 yds, will show about 2.3 mrad of drift from a 10 mph wind at 1,000 yds, speed drop is 1.6 (250 to 520), ranging error is 0.5 mrad difference between 800 and 830, 1.7 dialed on will cover 295 yds to 335 yards (+/-.3), and dialing on 1.5 mrad will give center for 300 yds, 1 mrad hold over for 400 yds, and 2 mrad hold over for 500 yds.

    Anyway, at least that’s how I see it.
    Plus ηa change, plus c'est la mκme chose.

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  9. #89
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    I had no idea this thread was still going. If any of you are interested, I ended up swapping in a complete bcg from Ballistic Advantage or Stag. I honestly can’t remember, but it functioned MUCH better after that. By that time I was kind of sick of the project, so I sold the rifle to a local store. I decided to start over using parts that have worked for me in the past, starting with a ZEV 308 receiver set, LMT 308 receiver extension, Armalite 1095 spring and an H3 buffer. I kept the JP bcg, but I swapped out the one piece gas ring it shipped with, for a set of normal gas rings. After talking to Criterion about the function issues, the JP one piece gas ring may have been the problem all along. Anyway, it now sits unfinished collecting dust.

    I plan to finish it sometime in the future, but I’m waiting for Noveske to bring back their N6 lineup, as I’d like to use one of their barrels. I spoke to somebody at Noveske this month, and he said they plan to bring their large frame rifles back to market sometime next year. From what I understood, they will release a 20” 6.5 CM barrel initially, followed by 16” 6.5 CM and 14.5” 6.5 CM barrels afterward. If Noveske doesn’t revive their N6 lineup, I might pick up an 18” V Seven 6.5 CM barrel instead.
    Last edited by Hammer_Man; 12-14-23 at 20:15.

  10. #90
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    I saw (in some gun dealer email) where there's a 16.75 SCAR in 6.5cm. I wonder if they captured the miserable recoil that they have on their other shitty guns in 6.5cm too!
    "What would a $2,000 Geissele Super Duty do that a $500 PSA door buster on Black Friday couldn't do?" - Stopsign32v

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