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Thread: The annoying Wylde Chamber explained:

  1. #61
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    The longer load on the 80s allows for more powder, and the load was actually .5 gr below Ramshot's published max for 5.56 ammo. I probably could have dialed in a 2825 is load that wasn't piercing primers. But again, the long cartridge is a pain to deal with.
    "What would a $2,000 Geissele Super Duty do that a $500 PSA door buster on Black Friday couldn't do?" - Stopsign32v

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ned Christiansen View Post
    My comments here would be the following, randomly presented:
    1. I don't recall ever seeing a primer pop in a 5.56 chamber. Now this is based only on examining guns that DID pop primers, and of those, all were found to have "not 5.56" chambers.

    2. Although my lifelong study is not yet over and is based on what different guns do or seem to do, as opposed to actual laboratory research, .223 Wylde seems to me to be OK with 5.56 ammo.

    ... if well over half the guns I examine in class have "not 5.56" chambers when they are stamped or engraved 5.56, I conclude that barrels marked ".223 Wylde" may not have that actual chamber. So I hesitate to judge a barrel too harshly unless I can confirm the chamber config.

    7. Everything has a tolerance. Even a perfect chamber can be on the large or small end of its tolerance. My opinion is that a true 5.56 chambers is not going to pop primers even if it's at the low limit for diameters and lengths.

    9: I'm with everyone here in the quest for .5MOA groups. I'm not up to the level of many of you in many of the aspects of this quest but I gotta say that I have had very satisfactory groups with a true 5.56 chamber. I have zero barrels with .223 Remington chambers; in my range experiences I can't say I've seen a world of dif between .223W and 5.56. I have not ever personally popped a primer in a .223W chamber. I'll grantcha that among National Champs at Camp Perry there are zero 5.56 chambers in use.
    Philosophies regarding rifle chambers, from different perspectives between blasters, combat shooters, and competitive target shooters.

    A .223 Remington barrel is great for casual shooting and for most shooters will give you satisfactory performance. It goes bang with most commercial ammo to the limits of its precision potential. 55-grain Ball is what it is, and most barrels are mass-produced.

    A .223 Wylde will give better general performance if you buy better ammo or load with good bullets, and is slightly better if shooting Match-grade ammo (quality handloads, quality bullets).

    5.56 is generally a "GI solution" for shooting very good to poor ammo, and high round-count schools and training.

    A USAMU competitive National Match target shooter is issued two M16 lowers and five uppers, and it's his-her personal responsibility to manage and rotate them so he has a practice upper, a match upper, and a spare (or at the gunsmith getting re-barreled). These have a tight body but long 5.56 throat to inter-changeably shoot 77s at 200 and 300 and single-loaded 80s at 600.

    One specialized barrel has close to a Frank White CLE .223 chamber because it's reserved for "Rattle Battle," a long-range rapid fire match shot at 600 and 500 yards (you get 50 seconds at 600 and 45 at 500 to shoot as many 77-grain round as you can at E-type GI slihouette targets). The fifth and last upper has a tight chamber with a long throat to shoot 80-grain ammo at targets 800, 900, and 1000 yards.

    The Action (IPSC-style) teams shoot run-and-gun matches with a number of Wylde chambers for hot-dusty conditions with precision.

    Combat shooting (in full military combat uniform) is generally M855A1 5.56 through GI mil chambers and barrels in issue guns.

    Like having different golf clubs -- pick the right one for mission or discipline you're shooting.

  3. #63
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    I am ALWAYS amazed at the quality of knowledge that is given out here on the Forum. Several of yall, damn Id like to just sit & talk with for a day..or two.
    Thank you all.
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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinister View Post
    A USAMU competitive National Match target shooter is issued two M16 lowers and five uppers, and it's his-her personal responsibility to manage and rotate them so he has a practice upper, a match upper, and a spare (or at the gunsmith getting re-barreled). These have a tight body but long 5.56 throat to inter-changeably shoot 77s at 200 and 300 and single-loaded 80s at 600.
    That's a high class arrangement.
    "What would a $2,000 Geissele Super Duty do that a $500 PSA door buster on Black Friday couldn't do?" - Stopsign32v

  5. #65
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    . . ALLOW AN 80GR SMK BE SINGLE LOADED. it is designed for one thing and one thing only 600 yard 80gr single load . .
    The 223 Wylde was invented in 1984. The 80 grain SMK wasn't invented until 1992.

    ...
    All that is necessary for trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.

  6. #66
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    Wait what? Were they single feeding some other long bullet perhaps?
    "What would a $2,000 Geissele Super Duty do that a $500 PSA door buster on Black Friday couldn't do?" - Stopsign32v

  7. #67
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    It looks like it was developed when he was working with the Canadians and their ammo at the time.

    The ability to use the 80gn SMK was just lucky.
    Seems it was more geared towards 69gn mag length ammo.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by One More Time View Post
    It looks like it was developed when he was working with the Canadians and their ammo at the time.

    The ability to use the 80gn SMK was just lucky.
    Seems it was more geared towards 69gn mag length ammo.
    Right, he made it for the 69SMK. I remember getting my first Wylde from Derrick Martin of Accuracy Speaks right around the time the AWB kicked in, I still have the Pre-ban receiver.
    AR15 Performance
    The 6.8 is the best choice for hunting deer and hogs with an AR15.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    Wait what? Were they single feeding some other long bullet perhaps?
    Long bullets/ long ogives with a restricted length need a shorter freebore, the 69s are kind of blunt compared to 77s and 80s.
    AR15 Performance
    The 6.8 is the best choice for hunting deer and hogs with an AR15.

  10. #70
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    The 69 Match King was the premium .223 / 5.56 bullet until the 77 and 80s.

    The Wylde throat and leade is a little more tolerant than the .223 SAAMI chamber for dust, but not so atrociously long as the .mil 5.56 chamber (since civilians don't shoot tracers, either).

    Bill said the Canadian SS-109 equivalent was remarkably good ammo.

    Surprisingly, the German firm DWM was the first place to R&D 77s way earlier than anyone else in the 70s-80s.

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