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Thread: The annoying Wylde Chamber explained:

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1168 View Post
    I’m sure you already know a good bit about this, but CFE223 produces a lot of gas drive at safe chamber pressures. 26gr with a 62gr bullet probably has another grain and a half to go till max. Hornady lists 27.7gr (double-check that before loading, work up, etc.) with their 62s. I’m pretty happy with 26gr and 62gr FMJs for 0-300m, myself, and thats one of my high-volume loads for the progressive. Runs in anything, shoots straight, doesn’t beat up the gun or brass.

    Most any gun will run on (but provide poor precision) only 24gr, which is right about starting, but like I said its a gassy powder. I tested that in a lightly gassed extended midlength 16” a couple years ago.

    On the chrono, more recently:

    16” Geissele/Sandman K

    M855 (real, not XM or other commercial)
    Av 2937
    Es 85
    Sd 26.6

    26.0gr CFE223/Hornady 62FMJ
    Av 2735
    Es 49
    Sd 15.4

    Same day; same temp. Anyway, I wouldn’t consider 26gr CFE223 to be hotter than .mil ammo just because it locks back, in a discussion about chambers. Of course, powder lots can vary a bit, though they’ve been pretty consistent for me.
    yes I know it is a slower burning powder which makes for higher pressure further down the bore. That load is right at 100 fps faster than the mil spec 5.56 ammo, my Pressure Trace confirms a little over 60k Peak while showing the M855 and M193 around 56500k. The M855 spec says 58k and 3060fps out of a 20" barrel so it should hit around 2900 out of a 16" but it does not, not even at 90 degrees like it was this week. All of it is old stuff I've had since we could get it for $149/can IMI, PPU and LC. Anyway the point I was making is the Wylde with a freebore of .062 and even the CLE chamber with a .025 freebore do not pop primers or show signs of pressure in my barrels with M193 or M855 ammo so if I had one that was popping primers I would start looking at headspace and the port size.
    ETA- these results from a 16" 3R 7.7 twist barrel with the 5.56 CLE chamber.
    Last edited by constructor; 06-18-22 at 09:40.

  2. #32
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    "As with most things genius, his design is simple, yet extremely effective. Wylde took the leade angle of the 5.56 NATO design and mated it to the tighter chamber body dimension and leade length of the .223 Rem. design. Wylde’s chamber gives enough room in the throat so 5.56 NATO cartridges won’t build dangerous pressure, but keeps the improved concentricity—and resulting accuracy—of the .223 Rem. The .223 Wylde chamber allows the owner to shoot both types of (identically dimensioned) ammunition without a worry in the world."

    https://www.shootingillustrated.com/...ar-15-chamber/

    As an aside, SAAMI chamber pressure is somewhere between 55,000 and 58,000 psi (I think) while 5.56 is around 62,000.

    Military ammo is tested using NATO EPVAT standards -- testing temperature ranges are below freezing to what a soldier might encounter if leaving his weapon and ammo on top a tracked vehicle in the desert (around ~125 degrees Fahrenheit).

    Ammo has to work properly at both ends of the mandated temperature range without dropping primers or damaging-destroying the weapon.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinister View Post



    "As with most things genius, his design is simple, yet extremely effective. Wylde took the leade angle of the 5.56 NATO design and mated it to the tighter chamber body dimension and leade length of the .223 Rem. design. Wylde’s chamber gives enough room in the throat so 5.56 NATO cartridges won’t build dangerous pressure, but keeps the improved concentricity—and resulting accuracy—of the .223 Rem. The .223 Wylde chamber allows the owner to shoot both types of (identically dimensioned) ammunition without a worry in the world."

    https://www.shootingillustrated.com/...ar-15-chamber/

    As an aside, SAAMI chamber pressure is somewhere between 55,000 and 58,000 psi (I think) while 5.56 is around 62,000.

    Military ammo is tested using NATO EPVAT standards -- testing temperature ranges are below freezing to what a soldier might encounter if leaving his weapon and ammo on top a tracked vehicle in the desert (around ~125 degrees Fahrenheit).

    Ammo has to work properly at both ends of the mandated temperature range without dropping primers or damaging-destroying the weapon.
    The guy on the Brownells video use the term "throat" at 1:36, some consider the throat to be a term of combined areas of freebore and leade others think it is only the leade. Where the dimension is confusing is the total length from the base and that is what he is saying by saying the Wylde is between the 223 and 5.56 and it's only because the 5.56 freebore is larger diameter.
    The freebore of the WYLDE is longer than the 5.56. The .223 has a freebore length of .025, the Nato .056 and the Wylde .0619". The 5.56 freebore is larger diameter and because it starts at a larger diameter it takes that 1.5 degree angle longer to get back to the .218 top of land to top of land. For every .001" larger in diameter the freebore is the length to the lands increases .017". The diameter of the freebore on the Wylde is smaller like the .223 to align the bullet on the bore better but the body/case area is actually larger in diameter than the 5.56 at the base and shoulder.
    Either way the point is The Wylde chamber(proper size and not undersized from a worn reamer) should not pop primers with 5.56 ammo and if it does something else is wrong and I would think over-gassed or headspace.
    ETA reamer dimensions can vary a little depending on what company grinds the reamers, JGS and PTG are the only reamer grinders in the country making carbide reamers which are used in large scale high production barrel making.
    Last edited by constructor; 06-18-22 at 10:46.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by constructor View Post
    I don't but they should have been standard 5.56 chambers, I had one that shot well for a chrome lined barrel. 69gr FGMM ammo was good for 3/4" at 100yds.
    You are seeing better results than I am. I own a Colt Sporter Match HBAR that shoots slightly over 2 MOA at 300 yards, and no better, with good loads. I have rifle log data that reflects two Colt Sporter Match HBAR rifles I owned in the mid 1990's would shoot no better. I thought maybe it was the way the chambers were reamed.
    Train 2 Win

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by T2C View Post
    If a student shoots M193 ammunition in a carbine, with a .223 Wylde chamber and carbine length gas system, it is not unusual to see popped primers. A few turns with a standard 5.56mm chamber reamer, designed to lengthen the free bore, will resolve the pressure issue, but accuracy drops off with 68g and 80g loads at 300 yards.

    Winchester Q3131A made in Israel is noticeably hotter than Q3131 made in CONUS.
    What kind of course is going on where students are shooting 80gr 5.56 at 300 yards?

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by PappyM3 View Post
    What kind of course is going on where students are shooting 80gr 5.56 at 300 yards?
    None. If the rifle or carbine was used for shooting at longer distances with 80g ammunition, accuracy will drop off after the Wylde chamber is reamed with a standard 5.56mm reamer.
    Train 2 Win

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by constructor View Post
    The guy on the Brownells video use the term "throat" at 1:36, some consider the throat to be a term of combined areas of freebore and leade others think it is only the leade. Where the dimension is confusing is the total length from the base and that is what he is saying by saying the Wylde is between the 223 and 5.56 and it's only because the 5.56 freebore is larger diameter.
    The freebore of the WYLDE is longer than the 5.56. The .223 has a freebore length of .025, the Nato .056 and the Wylde .0619". The 5.56 freebore is larger diameter and because it starts at a larger diameter it takes that 1.5 degree angle longer to get back to the .218 top of land to top of land. For every .001" larger in diameter the freebore is the length to the lands increases .017". The diameter of the freebore on the Wylde is smaller like the .223 to align the bullet on the bore better but the body/case area is actually larger in diameter than the 5.56 at the base and shoulder.
    Either way the point is The Wylde chamber(proper size and not undersized from a worn reamer) should not pop primers with 5.56 ammo and if it does something else is wrong and I would think over-gassed or headspace.
    ETA reamer dimensions can vary a little depending on what company grinds the reamers, JGS and PTG are the only reamer grinders in the country making carbide reamers which are used in large scale high production barrel making.
    Exactly

    On the Wylde chamber barrel that's blowing primers..Is it by chance chrome lined? Chrome buildup in the chamber at the steps from neck to freebore and in the leade? The eddie current created during plating at those points. Lightly turning a wylde reamer and look for shavings might explain things. Combine that possibly with a headspace nearer to max with much factory ammo that's actually at the min or even below and... pop goes the weasel.

    I loath CL barrels unless it's done with high precision and post process work ie lchamber clean up crown cleanup and full lapping i.e. old gen Sako trg I have. I will take a properly nitride barrel everytime.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim_W View Post
    On the Wylde chamber barrel that's blowing primers..Is it by chance chrome lined?
    Mine is a stainless White Oak. Not sure what others are have. With the explanation on the reason for the wylde.. I get it.

    I still see off brand nitride barrels in my gun spam emails that advertise the wylde chamber. WHY? Marketing? Sounds exotic? I guarantee the purchaser isn't shooting 80s.
    "What would a $2,000 Geissele Super Duty do that a $500 PSA door buster on Black Friday couldn't do?" - Stopsign32v

  9. #39
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    The Wylde is marketed as more accurate than 5.56 but can still handle 5.56 pressure ammo, so on paper it's the best of both worlds and the "easy choice".

    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post

    I still see off brand nitride barrels in my gun spam emails that advertise the wylde chamber. WHY? Marketing? Sounds exotic? I guarantee the purchaser isn't shooting 80s.
    Black River Tactical
    BRT OPTIMUM Hammer Forged Chrome Lined Barrels - 11.5", 12.5", 14.5", 16"
    BRT EZTUNE Preset Gas Tubes - PISTOL, CAR, MID, RIFLE
    BRT Bolt Carrier Groups M4A1, M16 CHROME
    BRT Covert Comps 5.56, 6X, 7.62

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clint View Post
    The Wylde is marketed as more accurate than 5.56 but can still handle 5.56 pressure ammo, so on paper it's the best of both worlds and the "easy choice".
    That's the thing. I've had instructors make mention of the chamber throwing fits with hot M193 clone ammo. And Mine shows bulging near the case web on some loads.
    "What would a $2,000 Geissele Super Duty do that a $500 PSA door buster on Black Friday couldn't do?" - Stopsign32v

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