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Thread: Shooting through auto glass......how high/low?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABNAK View Post
    I knew I could count on you guys for real-world specs on this subject! Thanks.

    Would rifle vs handgun round change the equation at all? i.e. a Mk318 or M8551A1 as opposed to an HST 147gr.
    Absolutely. Rifle over pistol all day. Bonded rifle over fmj. 855A1 is a pipe dream ammo for most due to availability. Gold dot, FedTac LE223T3, MK318. All fine.
    AQ planned for years and sent their A team to carry out the attacks, and on Flight 93 they were thwarted by a pick-up team made up of United Frequent Fliers. Many people look at 9/11 and wonder how we can stop an enemy like that. I look at FL93 and wonder, "How can we lose?". -- FromMyColdDeadHand

  2. #12
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    If you're gonna do it, train for it.

    We had lots of junk and end-of-life GSA cars. Analyzing, planning, and training helps you figure your engagement and shoot-through angles. You don't want to shoot your own guys (i.e., "Be sure of your target and what's behind it").

    I don't see civilian police organizations ever doing this kind of thing, but your driver MUST be completely hard turtled-up with eye and face protection against bullets, flying glass, AND FRAG.

    Not my guys, but gives you a rough idea:


  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABNAK View Post
    .

    Would rifle vs handgun round change the equation at all? i.e. a Mk318 or M8551A1 as opposed to an HST 147gr.
    IMI now IWI back in the day produced 2 9mm loads for internal security forces, one was loaded to NATO specs and the other was supper hot for the Uzi. For just this scenario of having to shoot through car glass, we carried the Uzi ammo in our Hi Powers. Needless to say we went through a lot of Hi Powers

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinister View Post
    ...

    A human grape is hard to hit. Hit them where they're the biggest, and shoot them a lot. The first few bullets aren't going through the glass intact. Shoot-throughs may kill someone you didn't want or intend to.
    Yes, exactly. My goal with holding face isnt that Im trying to hit face on the first shot or anything. Its just a practical place to put a dot on a roughly F-type shaped fleshtarget, knowing that my rounds may impact lower than my POA, assuming they even get to the target intact-ish.

    Also, good point about foreign glass.
    RLTW
    Y-you realize that nighttime makes up half of all time? -Rick Sanchez

    Disclosure: I am affiliated PRN with a tactical training center, but I speak only for myself. I have no idea what we sell, other than CLP and training.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggammell View Post
    Absolutely. Rifle over pistol all day. Bonded rifle over fmj. 855A1 is a pipe dream ammo for most due to availability. Gold dot, FedTac LE223T3, MK318. All fine.
    This...
    Bondeds and solids. This is also why the argument can be made for bigger (308) over .223 in vehicle interdiction as even with 1/2 of the original mass, the remainder of the 308 projectile still has the same retention of a complete .223 projectile with which to "do work". If you have the same barrier bullet tech in your 308 then things get real interesting.

    Expect that any jacketed lead bullet is gonna have the jacket ripped off. Some of the old M855 we recovered was just the steel core doing work.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by pointblank4445 View Post
    This...
    Bondeds and solids. This is also why the argument can be made for bigger (308) over .223 in vehicle interdiction as even with 1/2 of the original mass, the remainder of the 308 projectile still has the same retention of a complete .223 projectile with which to "do work". If you have the same barrier bullet tech in your 308 then things get real interesting.

    Expect that any jacketed lead bullet is gonna have the jacket ripped off. Some of the old M855 we recovered was just the steel core doing work.
    I agree, to a point -- you need a REALLY controllable 7.62 if you're trying to recover precious cargo.

    If you're deliberately trying to slay everyone in the vehicle, game on. Ideally you want something with a good brake to keep your muzzle and dot on-target (think KAC MAMS), or if you're using an AK try the Romanian Dong fore-grip.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinister View Post
    I agree, to a point -- you need a REALLY controllable 7.62 if you're trying to recover precious cargo.

    If you're deliberately trying to slay everyone in the vehicle, game on. Ideally you want something with a good brake to keep your muzzle and dot on-target (think KAC MAMS), or if you're using an AK try the Romanian Dong fore-grip.
    I’ve heard anecdotally that 150gr TSX is in another league vs auto glass.
    AQ planned for years and sent their A team to carry out the attacks, and on Flight 93 they were thwarted by a pick-up team made up of United Frequent Fliers. Many people look at 9/11 and wonder how we can stop an enemy like that. I look at FL93 and wonder, "How can we lose?". -- FromMyColdDeadHand

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    I would like to see a test of shooting thru auto glass into gel with these 223/556
    Gold Dot 75gr
    TSX 70gr
    GMX 70gr
    Which would you experts say is the best performer at this?
    Is anything else as good or better?
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpoon View Post
    I would like to see a test of shooting thru auto glass into gel with these 223/556
    Gold Dot 75gr
    TSX 70gr
    GMX 70gr
    Which would you experts say is the best performer at this?
    Is anything else as good or better?
    All things being equal, they will perform well. The glass gets a vote and that’s what makes everything inconsistent. Laminated? Rake and curve. That’s why it’s so hard to be definitive.
    AQ planned for years and sent their A team to carry out the attacks, and on Flight 93 they were thwarted by a pick-up team made up of United Frequent Fliers. Many people look at 9/11 and wonder how we can stop an enemy like that. I look at FL93 and wonder, "How can we lose?". -- FromMyColdDeadHand

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinister View Post
    I agree, to a point -- you need a REALLY controllable 7.62 if you're trying to recover precious cargo.
    There's a reason we strongly want to get things done oustide of vehicles if the group is intermixed. Managing that control is HARD.

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