When the Lies Come Home

[chuckman]

NATO is a sham, and we will watch as the outliers are picked off one by one because cold feet dominate NATO.
It is in Europe's interest to help Ukraine as it was Crimea ect, but they are scared and flooded with the detritus
from our wars in the middle east.

NATO was a sham. I believe they are born again after what's happened to Ukraine.

Then there's this thread: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...28#post3040228

I do not want to see any NATO country get attacked by Russia to prove/disprove what the US or any other NATO country will/won't do.

[Wake27]

NATO is a sham, and we will watch as the outliers are picked off one by one because cold feet dominate NATO.
It is in Europe's interest to help Ukraine as it was Crimea ect, but they are scared and flooded with the detritus
from our wars in the middle east.

What makes you so confident in betting against NATO?


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[DG23]

What makes you so confident in betting against NATO?


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Can't and wont try to answer for him but have a question for YOU -

WHEN has the US ever fought an opponent that was a 'near peer'? Someone that had the ability to say nuke our asses if they though they were about to lose bigly???

[Wake27]

Can't and wont try to answer for him but have a question for YOU -

WHEN has the US ever fought an opponent that was a 'near peer'? Someone that had the ability to say nuke our asses if they though they were about to lose bigly???

We fought near peers in both WWI and WWII… the difference is the nukes. But we have them too so it’s back to the Cold War question of whether or not you can destroy your opponent completely without them also doing the same to you. Not many options around that.


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[DG23]

NATO was a sham. I believe they are born again after what's happened to Ukraine.

SNIP...

I do not want to see any NATO country get attacked by Russia to prove/disprove what the US or any other NATO country will/won't do.

If NATO really wanted to 'help' Ukraine they would get on in there and fight side by side with them but... That is not about to happen and everyone knows it.






Eventually Ukraine is going to run out of cannon fodder OR piss off Russia to the point where Russia starts flattening places like Kiev (Russia calls these places 'decision making centers' or some crap like that). When either happens - Zelenski is going to cry uncle and make peace.

While we wait on that eventual outcome - The sanctions are and have proven to be a colossal failure and done more to harm the NATO countries participating in them than they have Russia. Give it a little more time and see how long it takes before their people start to get pissy and complain about the higher and higher costs THEY are having to pay (food, fuel, etc.) for the Russia sanctions while the Russians simply redistribute those sanctioned products to 'friendly' countries that said NO to those sanctions and continue on as they always have. In some cases forming even greater / stronger alliances with other potential adversaries of ours (China, Iran, India, etc.)...

Cut them off from the SWIFT payment system to cripple them and what happens? They find a different way to make payments using a different system and move right along. Both Russia and the other country they are trading with just got stronger as now they are settling their debts in a new way that can't be 'sanctioned' at will by the west.

Consider the way the energy products formerly moved and compare to how those same products are being moved around currently (and what direction they will be going in the future). A year ago Russia did not sell a lot of oil to India or China. There was very little in the way of infrastructure to support moving a lot of energy products to those places because it was not needed. Fewer ships, fewer or no pipelines, etc.

Now? They are selling the crap out of energy products to India and China. Massive increases in volumes. That 'small' gas pipeline to China project they were working on just got moved to the front of the line as far as where the investment money is headed. Pretty sure the same will happen with where they invest with respect to getting oil to India. Where the infrastructure may not have been there a year ago - It WILL be there a year from now.

Who just got stronger there?

We just pushed them to develop closer ties with countries that refuse to play by our 'rules' and made our 'rules' less effective going forward.


Along those same lines not even all of the NATO countries are 'participating' in our sanction program. Turkey is a good example here. They are not only in NATO and refusing to go along with our sanction crap here - They also refuse to follow our dictats on what weapons they 'should' or 'should not' be buying and thumbed their noses when we threatened to sanction THEM over their Russian S400 air defense purchases. They give give not half a shit what we (the USA) or NATO try to tell them to do under the threat of any sanctions. They do what they please (and what they deem is best for them) regardless...

Because of the 'sanctions', McDonalds pulled out of Russia. Now instead of the golden arches there is a different 'M' logo in a different color and someone else is selling the same exact crap food and raking in the profit. Same exact food just a different name of the store front. Who lost out here? The people in Russia buying those burgers (that are still buying them) or the American company 'McDonalds' that cashed in their chips and pulled out?

McDonalds is going to be crying about all that money they are not making now long before any Russian starts crying because the 'M' is a different color...

[DG23]

We fought near peers in both WWI and WWII… the difference is the nukes. But we have them too so it’s back to the Cold War question of whether or not you can destroy your opponent completely without them also doing the same to you. Not many options around that.


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Agree.

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

It appears the Russian's T-62M1's are finally making their debut on the southern front. I wonder why they are deploying these tanks?

[Outlander Systems]

Russia is fighting an existential war, and the west is fighting to bring buttsex, international mercantilism and “diversity” to every place that didn’t ask for it. Who’s in charge of Afghanistan?

What makes you so confident in betting against NATO?

[tn1911]

It appears the Russian's T-62M1's are finally making their debut on the southern front. I wonder why they are deploying these tanks?

[Wake27]

Russia is fighting an existential war, and the west is fighting to bring buttsex, international mercantilism and “diversity” to every place that didn’t ask for it. Who’s in charge of Afghanistan?

Do you have any idea what else has been happening in NATO countries for months now? Estonia and Lithuania have been distancing themselves from and preparing to fight the Russians again for generations, just like South Korea. Their memories are not so short.

There’s a lot of bullshit wokeism going on but there are a lot of other things too. I don’t know how much the news is publishing foreign involvement in Ukraine but many of those countries are quite invested and becoming more so every week.


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