RD's on Pistols

[yoni]

There’s a Youtube tutorial floating around where the dude fills the backstrap with some sort of epoxy and then removes material.

And as to the water thing…yeah, it rains in coastal SC.

Their is a guy that sells a flat replacement piece, so you remove the hump and glue this piece in then stipple it which melts the polymer together along the seam. So my plan is to do this and just stipple along the seam to get it to melt to become one piece then leave the center smooth and use grip tape for the texture.

I think Glocks are about the ugliest pistol out there, so for me it is function first rather than trying to put lipstick on a sow.

[MegademiC]

The aiming being technique, I can see your point and agree with it but, with the price and rarity of ammo, I do not know many people who are out there practicing much at all anymore.

Water rendering the Dot useless however, I do not see as technique. When water is on the shooter's side of the lens, it makes the dot bloom. That also makes it very difficult to see your irons thru the RDS.

Also, I have been in three OIS and haven't used my sights that I can remember, it was all "feel" and time was infinitely slow is the best I can describe it as.

Dry fire works.
The water issue is overblown. The dot blooms but is perfectly useable, just anonoying. Ive had a couple uspsa matches in the rain and no cover on my dot. For ccw, it would be covered anyways.

[Sainte]

Dry fire works.
The water issue is overblown. The dot blooms but is perfectly useable, just annoying. Ive had a couple uspsa matches in the rain and no cover on my dot. For ccw, it would be covered anyways.

true with ccw but, as a police officer, your gun is out in the open at almost all times. Also, being in the Deep South, we have high humidity and temps so, when you get out of an air conditioned unit, the RDS could fog up...like glasses.

I am not saying don't use it (unless it's NCStar crap etc...), that is personal preference, I just advise you know wth you're doing with it.

[pointblank4445]

I am curious if others have researched any differences in their current use of RD vs. irons.

Just took out one of my iron-only guns recently...

What I feel I have gained from shooting RDS almost exclusively is more accountability in trigger manipulation for higher margins of accuracy given the feedback of the dot in both practice and dry fire. This has helped accuracy at distance when time is not a factor.

What I feel I have lost is the quick/efficient iron sight refinement required at distance (15+ yards) in coming back from target-focused shooting and needing to refine sight picture when both speed and accuracy at distance is necessary (Speed bulls, Defoor hat standards, etc.).

As it plays out, the performance is about a wash compared to where I was pre-RDS pistols.

[Defaultmp3]

true with ccw but, as a police officer, your gun is out in the open at almost all times. Also, being in the Deep South, we have high humidity and temps so, when you get out of an air conditioned unit, the RDS could fog up...like glasses.

I am not saying don't use it (unless it's NCStar crap etc...), that is personal preference, I just advise you know wth you're doing with it.

Hey everyone,

I recently obtained a sample Aimpoint ACRO P-2 and I figured I’d start a new thread about it since as we know, it’s got some serious updates from the P-1. While I was waiting for the M&P mounting plate I threw it on a Glock to do a little cold exposure test. The plate came in yesterday and I mounted it to my M&P M2.0 CORE. It’s resting while the threadlocker cures and I’ll be shooting it this week.

First, I’ll give the disclaimer… While probably obvious right now I didn’t buy this optic (they aren’t available yet) and it isn’t mine. It is one of two provided by Aimpoint for evaluation and feedback and will be returned once we’re finished running it. I have permission to post my experiences with no strings... good or bad. Some or lots of my comments will be statements from me as well as my partners. I will speak frankly, and my comments should be considered my own opinions and not those of my employer. I’m an ACRO fan (and Aimpoint overall) to begin with, so there’s also that.



One P-2 is being used by my partner and I’ll address his initial thoughts in a bit. The other got thrown on a Glock 17MOS gen5 for some quick cold weather and condensation/fogging testing. I think this is important because while our needs in Southern California don’t generally require an optic to deal with high humidity and condensational fogging of the optic window, other areas do, and I like to see what worst case does. If I know worst case, I can plan for the rest of situations I may face. In addition, with Aimpoint going to the CR2032 and mounting it on the outside of the housing, I was wondering if the battery would be more susceptible to the cold. Duracell lists the low operating temperature for their 2032 batteries at negative four degrees.

The Glock/ACRO P-2 was placed in a chest freezer along with a remote thermometer and left from 1705hrs until 2102hrs (almost four hours). Upon removing the pistol/optic from the freezer, the temperature inside the freezer as indicated by the thermometer was minus 10 degrees Fahrenheit and the outside (ambient) temperature was 88 degrees Fahrenheit. Relative humidity was 31% for a dewpoint of 53.5 degrees. All condensation between -10 and 32 degrees formed as frost and after the optic reached that temperature condensation continued as water until the optic acclimated to at least 53.5 degrees.



I immediately checked the optic and found it to be activated and operating properly. I took the pistol out and condensation began almost immediately. The view through the window was occluded with condensational fogging within thirty seconds but the dot remained clear, crisp, and visible for the several minutes it took for the pistol to reach a high enough temperature for the condensation to stop. I’ve done this test several times with different optics, and it is one of the things that has really made me a fan of enclosed emitter optics for duty use.

The first picture is focusing on the optic while the second is focusing to infinity as you'd be looking through it.


Some other initial thoughts:

The P-2 looks cooler than the P-1 with it’s deeper contoured housing, but overall seems slightly more bulky, particularly on the left side due to the thicker battery cap. It’s not a concern but when mounted it seemed off center until I realized it was the battery cap. On the other hand, the cross-bolt mounting screw is flat which is an improvement and the previous mounting screw protruded further than the current battery cap.

The P-2 has lower profile buttons. I was told this is to minimize the potential for accidentally hitting them and changing the setting. In addition, the buttons are moved to the forward portion of the housing. I like the brightness buttons on the P-1 but like these more since I run my optics at a single brightness setting and because they are much less likely to be hit while manipulating the slide.

The window is still super clear with no discernable distortion, and the brightness of the P-2 is much improved from the P-1. My partner’s first comment running the P-2 was “It feels weird to have to turn an ACRO 'down' in daylight". When using the P-1, I always run it on max. I haven’t shot the P-2 yet, but that simply won’t be the case, and I’m betting that will further help battery life.



I’m not a fan of the Aimpoint M&P mounting plate. The plate can be moved forward and backward in the slide cut and I’ve seen them come loose. That said, we were mounting optics differently when that was happening so I figure I’ll give it a try. I degreased everything (slide, plate, and screws), used alloy steel screws from McMaster-Carr, and I used a 6-32 x 3/8” screw instead of the supplied 6-32 x 5/16” screws supplied by Aimpoint. I don’t know if that will make a difference, but it gives more thread engagement surface area for the Loctite 248 threadlocker. I torqued a few extra (18 total) inch pounds as well. We’ll see.

Source: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....=1#post1244342

Use of anti-fog can also help mitigate fogging issues.

[Eurodriver]

I’d be curious if the long distance shooting would have been slower or sloppier had you not been using RDS anyway. Long distance shooting with a red dot on a pistol is it’s jam.

[gaijin]

I my case with irons at distance (compared to RD); hits were much slower but not as precise (A’s, C’s at 50+- yds), as fast as RD with hits MUCH sloppier (throwing D’s or miss at 50+- yds).
Thee other in group experienced same, with poorer hits at 50+- yds.

[Vandal]

RDS on a range toy or comp pistols are great, as far as duty carry, I HIGHLY do not recommend them.

When I hear some guys at work talking about getting them, I tell them to pull out their pistol and point out how dirty their gun is with dust, dirt, lint what have you.

Then I break out a RDS on a rifle and spray water on the eye side of the dot and show them how the RDS is useless at that point.

Don't get me wrong, I have a few pistols with a RDS on them but, again I use them as range toys. I have found that if you do not constantly train with them, you spend more time trying to find the red dot than you do watching your target, this is NOT a good thing to be doing in a life/death situation.

Others may have a different experience or opinion and that is fine. It is just my personal opinion on RDS on a pistol.

Wow, the RDS sights on my duty guns here in Western WA must be useless 70% of the year...

If you don't consistently train with irons you suck too. I can show you several members of my PD who can't keep in the black of a B8 at 7 yards.

[gaijin]

Agree with staying sharp with irons.

And missing an 8” target at 7 yds is approaching irresponsible, in addition to being a potential liability.

[MegademiC]

I believe a lot of these issues are overblown.

Even at 25yds, with full extension, you can get good hits with fog, frost, co densatio , rain, etc.

Once you get good proficient they are fast/more accurste than irons at all distances. IMO.

Bob Vogel disagrees, so theres that, but almost every local matche is won with a pistol with an rds.