Supreme Court overrules roe v wade

[TomMcC]

That is simply adding philosophy to an already muddied topic, so let me cut to the chase. Vivisection is a "medical procedure" by definition of the words, it might have have almost zero real world benefit unless you are documenting the real time death of humans from some horrible virus, it might possibly be one of the most reprehensible thing a human has thought up to do to another human, probably ranks right up there with kidnapping humans for purpose of cannibalism as one of the few acts that probably removes the actual distinction of what qualifies a human as a human but it is still technically a "medical procedure."

Obviously not all "medical procedures" serve a meaningful purpose. Ironically the medical part of the definition does give us some "real world" guidance with things like abortion. The Hippocratic Oath simplified says "do no harm" so that would from a medical ethics standpoint eliminate most abortions except in cases of forced pregnancy, undue risk of injury to the mother, unborn or both. We are evolved enough that for everyone else a 8th grade level of responsibility and things like "the morning after" pill, not to mention every known form of birth control, the need for an abortion is eliminated and all but the most radical extremes on both sides of the debate would be satisfied.

I'd wager 90% of abortions didn't need to happen and if providing birth control, education and accepting that lots of people are simply going to be sexually active from the time they hit puberty then I think that would be preferable. Then there is the elephant in the room, almost without exception I think every member of this forum would willfully disobey any SCOTUS ruling that banned firearms, now what do you imagine they'd do if they found themselves unexpectedly pregnant and didn't agree with the condition of pregnancy or a federal law that prevented them from ending it?

So I don't think the SC has done anything to end abortion, they have simply defined where it is legal and informed people where they must go in order to get an abortion.

I really don't think adding "philosophy" to the subject is avoidable, it's the way we are. Also, I don't think that philosophy in and of itself is the problem, it's not like we can escape a category of thinking like...what is moral. Even the most wicked of us think in moral categories. It's bad philosophy that's the problem.

As for Roe, I said it is but a step. I knew the slaughter would continue and said so. It will be interesting to see states set themselves apart on this issue. We saw it happening before Roe went down, leading eventually to it overturn. Roe going down seems to be the intolerable shot across the bow for the left and they love violence.

As for what people will do with their lives concerning "sexuality", I obviously have no control over that. All I can do is tell them, when the opportunity presents itself, there is a different way, a good way.

[SteyrAUG]

I really don't think adding "philosophy" to the subject is avoidable, it's the way we are. Also, I don't think that philosophy in and of itself is the problem, it's not like we can escape a category of thinking like...what is moral. Even the most wicked of us think in moral categories. It's bad philosophy that's the problem.

The point I attempted to make is the "moral" component should already exist with The Hippocratic Oath.

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Help me out a bit... why is abortion do important? They are freaking out with anxiety... how many abortions do women have? I would guess 1 in a lifetime? Or is this a weekly thing for some? Do people nowadays nOt use a condom after hooking up on tinder?

They act like they are banning couches and bonbons.

I think much of it is financial. A young lady in her early 20s with little means of supporting a child might view pregnancy as terrifying. That same woman in her early 30s, more financially established, might view pregnancy as wonderful. Over the past couple decades there's been a significant shift in age among women giving birth.

[Averageman]

I am amazed that so many Americans have so little knowledge of how the Constitution works.
I have young female Family members up in arms about losing their "Constitutional Right" to an abortion.
I actually tried to explain to my niece just how rediculous she appears claiming abortion is a right and how the Supreme Court "took" it away from her.
Of course I didn't get a reply to my explanation and now she's arguing on Facebook with my Mother about it.

[JediGuy]

PSA for all:

The politically correct term at the moment is “termination of pregnancy” in place of “abortion.”

Can’t trigger anyone.

[Disciple]

In the context of the US, I highly doubt that's what rapists are doing....trying to reproduce on the cheap. I might buy that argument for, say, Nigeria, where you have Islamists running around stealing Christian girls to rape and reproduce. Here, not so much.

If you got your way it would happen here too.

So I'll start with the "vain worship", presuming to speak for God argument. Guess what, you just contradicted yourself, by, you guessed it, speaking for God.

Falsehood and lies. I am not making anything up, but you are.

Trying to call another brother to account, like you just did and essentially paraphrasing the scriptures is in fact speaking for God,

No, it is not. Again you lie. I drew a parallel that you might consider your position. Do you deny that Jesus condemned "Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men" in the verse I cited?

Your accusation is false, but I don't have a problem at all with the idea of "speaking for God" as long as you're speaking the truth. In fact, he calls us to "speak the truth in love", that would be his truth we're speaking.

His truth indeed, NOT YOURS. Show me from scripture where God says that mixing sperm and eggs in a dish making babies and discarding the product is murder. You have decided that you know the unrevealed mind of God in this matter.

Do you believe telling people about the gospel of Christ is "presuming to speak for God"?

If anyone fabricates another "gospel" it surely is. See Galatians 1. "But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed."

So, it really sounds like you don't believe a "blastocyst" is a new human being.

The bible does not tell us when and how a soul is created or joined to a body. A traditional belief held that it was at quickening. Modern technology allows us to observe a heartbeat and brain function far earlier than that. Some do not believe in a soul at all.

"A completely unique DNA profile" is not the measure of a soul; is it ethical to kill one identical twin because the other remains? Absurd.

Your next argument is that women can't have affection for their "blastocyst". This is about the most ridicules argument of all. The Christian women I have known and do know, don't think that when they become pregnant that they are carrying a "blastocyst", to a woman, they all believe and know they are carrying a baby. And guess what??? They LOVE their coming babies. I've seen women cry and lament and mourn for their miscarried "blastocyst".

You are in no position to call anything ridiculous after writing the above. You are spewing words without comprehending them.

[georgeib]

Here’s how:

Abortion is the most powerful form of ritual murder ever created. Why is abortion the most powerful form of human ritual sacrifice? It entails the most defenseless victims conceivable (the unborn) being murdered by the very persons most duty-bound to love and protect them from harm; their own mothers.

These ritual murders, which society misnames, “abortion” are, furthermore, carried out in a nonchalant and routinized fashion exclusively to facilitate hedonistic apathy, laziness and convenience; symbolically placing a moment of vaginal pleasure above the value of an entire lifetime’s worth of a living, breathing human being’s consciousness.

In short, Satan and his servants love abortion, because it symbolizes evil within cruelty within absolute selfishness. It proffers that a fleeting moment of genital contractions means more than human life itself; and it does this using the greatest symbols of love and compassion (mothers and doctors), Satanically inverted into spiritually numbed, unfeeling, clinical executioners.

But, as long as GDP is up, who cares about any of that, right?

Brilliant insight, bro. Well done.

[jesuvuah]

If you got your way it would happen here too.



Falsehood and lies. I am not making anything up, but you are.



No, it is not. Again you lie. I drew a parallel that you might consider your position. Do you deny that Jesus condemned "Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men" in the verse I cited?



His truth indeed, NOT YOURS. Show me from scripture where God says that mixing sperm and eggs in a dish making babies and discarding the product is murder. You have decided that you know the unrevealed mind of God in this matter.



If anyone fabricates another "gospel" it surely is. See Galatians 1. "But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed."



The bible does not tell us when and how a soul is created or joined to a body. A traditional belief held that it was at quickening. Modern technology allows us to observe a heartbeat and brain function far earlier than that. Some do not believe in a soul at all.

"A completely unique DNA profile" is not the measure of a soul; is it ethical to kill one identical twin because the other remains? Absurd.



You are in no position to call anything ridiculous after writing the above. You are spewing words without comprehending them.

Imho, you are the one coming off as ridiculous bro.

There are plenty of scriptures that support the fact that life begins in the womb, and that this life is precious.

God gives us discernment, and the overwhelming majority of Christian, who have the Holy spirit, agree that it is at conception.


New King James Version
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations.”

Jer 1:5


I could say more, but I don't think it would be fruitful.



Soli Deo Gloria

[Disciple]

Imho, you are the one coming off as ridiculous bro.

There are plenty of scriptures that support the fact that life begins in the womb, and that this life is precious.

How could you possibly read anything I wrote as suggesting otherwise? To the contrary it is TomMcC asserting that mixing sperm and eggs in a dish is "creating babies in mass."

God gives us discernment, and the overwhelming majority of Christian, who have the Holy spirit, agree that it is at conception.

Please show me the major Christian denominations that believe IVF is multiple murder. Not merely immoral as I believe Roman Catholics hold, but murder punishable by death.

New King James Version
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations.”

This appears to speak to the preexistance and predestination. I think Exodus 21:22-24 is more germane.

[SeriousStudent]

I have a great idea. Why don't some of you folks put each other on Ignore? We make it very easy to do here. Give it a whirl, I predict you'll love it. I know the rest of us certainly will enjoy the peaceful discussion.

I'm going to lock the thread for a while. because all we have here is folks screaming at each other. Seriously, not one of you is going to convince the other, or change each other's minds. Your positions are intractable.

If anyone opens another thread on this SCOTUS case, I'll lock it too.

Just. Stop.