Knight's Armament Accuracy Issue

[Stickman]

6" groups at what distance using what optic?


ETA- I think I get better groups than that shooting Wolf or steel cased junk at 100 yards.

[duroSIG556R]

Any update? I'm curious to see some actual targets. M193 isn't supposed to be crap ammo. See: The US accuracy specification for M193 cited in MIL-C-9963F is as follows:

The average of the mean radii of all targets of the sample cartridges, fired at 200 yards, shall not exceed 2.0 inches.

These averages are from 10-shot groups fired from machine rested, bolt-actioned, heavy test barrels. All things being equal this specification equates to a mean radius of 1 inch at 100 yards (the distance at which I tested this ammunition).

I myself am experiencing terrible accuracy with a Sig m400 chf 11.5" barrel and m193. I'm still working on seeing what it likes, but to me it seems to be a characteristic of this particular barrel for whatever reason.

[Eurodriver]

6” at 100 yards is unacceptable with any AR using 5.56 ammo.

[grizzman]

6” at 100 yards is unacceptable with any AR using 5.56 ammo.

.......but the 1.5" to 2" groups the OP gets with good ammo is acceptable.

When any manufacturer has an accuracy guarantee, it's stated that it applies when match or high end hunting ammo is used, not the cheapest ammo that can be found. I'm curious what KAC said when he called them to discuss the issue.


I doubt the OP is using legitimate M193 ammo that has passed all QC testing required of M193. He's probably using M193-ish ammo, which still hasn't been identified. The testing procedure and optic setup also hasn't been specified.

[Wake27]

Any update? I'm curious to see some actual targets. M193 isn't supposed to be crap ammo. See: The US accuracy specification for M193 cited in MIL-C-9963F is as follows:

The average of the mean radii of all targets of the sample cartridges, fired at 200 yards, shall not exceed 2.0 inches.

These averages are from 10-shot groups fired from machine rested, bolt-actioned, heavy test barrels. All things being equal this specification equates to a mean radius of 1 inch at 100 yards (the distance at which I tested this ammunition).

I myself am experiencing terrible accuracy with a Sig m400 chf 11.5" barrel and m193. I'm still working on seeing what it likes, but to me it seems to be a characteristic of this particular barrel for whatever reason.

Generally accepted performance in a less controlled environment is 3-4 MOA.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Eurodriver]

.......but the 1.5" to 2" groups the OP gets with good ammo is acceptable.

When any manufacturer has an accuracy guarantee, it's stated that it applies when match or high end hunting ammo is used, not the cheapest ammo that can be found. I'm curious what KAC said when he called them to discuss the issue.


I doubt the OP is using legitimate M193 ammo that has passed all QC testing required of M193. He's probably using M193-ish ammo, which still hasn't been identified. The testing procedure and optic setup also hasn't been specified.

If he’s getting 1.5” with good ammo then the testing procedure and optic setup is not contributing to the 6” group size with his 55gr ammo.

[MegademiC]

I agree. 4" groups are bad, but I could chalk it up to ammo and live with it for 193/855. 6"+ is not something Id be okay with using mil-spec stuff.

Which makes me think, OP, is this M193 or XM193? Is it the same for different lots/brands? As stated, try some 50-55gr vmax loads and see how those group.

[Wake27]

If he’s getting 1.5” with good ammo then the testing procedure and optic setup is not contributing to the 6” group size with his 55gr ammo.

Good point.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Serlo II]

Can you detail more of the setup you use to group with?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sorry for the delay, I'm not online daily.
I have a caldwell rest and also sandbags. I sight in at 36 yards then test at 100 and 200. Optic is Vortex Razor HD 1-6

I'm going to double check the barrel crown and give it a good scrub for copper fouling and try again.
I was at a 3-gun practice night and let some other guys shoot it. I'm almost burned through my m193 ammo supply and have been doing well with the 62 grain rounds. One young guy who's a very good shooter wanted to try it out and used his own 55gr ammo. He was kind of stunned that he had a hard time hitting the steel disc spinner at 100 yards. He can normally get it spinning pretty quick.

[Serlo II]

I agree. 4" groups are bad, but I could chalk it up to ammo and live with it for 193/855. 6"+ is not something Id be okay with using mil-spec stuff.

Which makes me think, OP, is this M193 or XM193? Is it the same for different lots/brands? As stated, try some 50-55gr vmax loads and see how those group.

I've got some 50 cal ammo cans filled with misc 55gr ammo. Most is IWI or Fiocchi. I've burned through most of it and only buy 62gr now. This is my only AR-15 so I want to have everything buttoned down and predictable.