Russian invasion of Ukraine discussion

[mack7.62]

Three branch lines going to Denmark not the whole pipeline so yes I can see Russia doing this as a warning.

[Wake27]

Yes, "Russia" blew it up. They blew up their own pipeline, through which Europe could have purchased all the gas they want, if they chose to capitulate to other Russian actions (Ukraine, takeover of the contested areas). They just destroyed their best negotiating point and prevented European countries like Germany from defecting from a war they don't really want to be in, which is wrecking their economies, probably forever. "Russia" did this.

Cui bono?

(For those who don't get it: the destruction of these pipelines benefits whoever is pushing the Ukraine war to continue, because it greatly reduces Putin's potential ability to persuade major European countries like Germany to abandon war support in return for re-starting their economies. If Ukraine had a world-class navy, I would suspect Ukraine. Since it doesn't, consider who's supporting the war and stands to benefit from this act.)

Really doesn’t matter who blew it up. What matters is who gets blamed for it. This could be extremely interesting, and problematic.


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[SomeOtherGuy]

Really doesn’t matter who blew it up. What matters is who gets blamed for it. This could be extremely interesting, and problematic.

Indeed, and I assume all of the western press will blame Russia for it.

Some more reading:

https://voxday.net/2022/09/27/the-us...uropes-lights/

[mack7.62]

Russia does not much value medevc at all, causality ratio close to 1:1, that is pretty shocking for a modern military.

Trent Telenko
@TrentTelenko
Western casualty ratio estimates are comically wrong.

One Ukrainian former foreign intelligence official put it at 1.3 Russian wounded for every Russian killed.

The horror that ratio represents is...

....utterly inhuman.

[mack7.62]

Indeed, and I assume all of the western press will blame Russia for it.

Some more reading:

https://voxday.net/2022/09/27/the-us...uropes-lights/

Give me a break, the US is sabotaging the Nord Stream pipelines...right. Look at the timing, likely this is a hint to EU, accept our sham referendum in the occupied territories of Ukraine or there could be more "accidents".

[Jellybean]

However if you went through a rough patch and had your kids taken away. Then got back on your feet again. Would you fight to get them back?

Sure, that's a valid point from Russia's pov.
That being said, I'm sure most eastern Europe countries want to be part of Russia again about as much as Hong Kong wanted to re-join China.
Of course the west was such a fine help to HK and did so much to support them as they literally begged not to let China take over....
But real politics aren't always fun, realistic, or go the way you want.
So from that angle MAYBE Ukraine should also have sucked it the f*** up, and figured out this Donbass secession issue back in 2014, instead of, you know, doing what they did... seems neither side helped their case much over the last several years. Also, maybe Putin could have tried simply grabbing what he could bite off instead of trying to take over the whole country... Why Rus seems to be utterly hellbent on grabbing the whole thing after the asskicking they are allegedly getting is...odd.

That being said, I also find it utterly hilarious, and a little pathetic, how quick people are to jump on the MSM-fronted bandwagon yet again when it suits their preferred notions of the world.
Because after, at minimum, the last couple years of "MSM lies" and "question everything", NOW suddenly every word that the MSM shits out is totally true and correct information on everything going on with this war. Almost every link posted here is from a source that six months ago woulda got you laughed off the thread you posted it in.
Because totally unbiased MSM sources, through the mouths of solely Ukranian sources are absolutely correct about what Russia is up to, or what the war is about..
Suuuuuure.... and Russia just scored in the 90+ percentage of that referendum in areas that they control...
Pretty sure both sides are trying to sell you all bridges, and there seem to suddenly be lots of eager buyers....

[Artos]

Ran across this regarding the pipeline:

Biden says he will shut down Nord Stream.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ABC/statu...92461979078662

Supposed underwater evidence of the sabotage.

https://mobile.twitter.com/runews/st...44763621814272

[kaiservontexas]

Germany has enough coal not to care about gas. France has nuclear. Both may be expanded, and damn the greens. It would be nice if that were to happen anyway. Western Europe can take care of themselves if they really wanted to do so versus nonsense green posturing. Just like they could take care of their own military stuff, but instead use us as a crutch. I honestly think the left likes it that way because it lets them always bring up how in Europe blah blah blah works; so, we could do that here in America also; yet, they always forget to mention how Europe does this by relying upon us as their defense force. They also forget to mention how nations over their are smaller both in population and physical size. I live in a city with a population larger than Denmark. Deutschland is the size of Wisconsin. I think people forget how many nations are much smaller than the United States, or simply do not realize these demographic and physical differences. In any case I am not worried about Western Europe starving, for if that happens it is because they have allowed it. Maybe that will be the good outcome of this conflict. It illustrating how people have been living in a fantasy.

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

I don’t understand why anyone would want to blow this thing up. The Russians will need it after Putin. I guess he might be sending signals but the Russians aren’t going to be shipping any gas to Russia next year anyway. It’s weird.

[georgeib]

Bro, don't even bother posting any opposing ideas in this thread other than Putin is some kind of secretly homoerotic moustache twirling Bond villain and that Ukraine is 2 weeks away from winning the war. This thread is nothing but a Slava Ukraini yelling circle jerk echo chamber. This thread lost any objectivity like 50 pages ago.

..yeah. It’s kinda sad. M4C used to be a fairly intelligent place.
Guess I better just buy a Zelenskyy Funko Pop and accept that an educated KGB Colonel who once seriously entertained joining NATO in 1999 is secretly an impotent, Pedo Hitler wannabe who is lashing out at the world because he got picked last in kickball or something

It's refreshing to see people thinking rationally about this, I must say.