Russian invasion of Ukraine discussion

[tn1911]

Conscripted Russian Soldier Immediately Surrenders to Ukraine Forces

https://www.newsweek.com/mobilized-c...ne-war-1746942

Hey Firefly looks like those Russians super soldiers finally showed up!!!

[Firefly]

Conscripted Russian Soldier Immediately Surrenders to Ukraine Forces

https://www.newsweek.com/mobilized-c...ne-war-1746942

Hey Firefly looks like those Russians super soldiers finally showed up!!!

First of all, Newsweek.
Second of all, Ukrainian source. .
Third of all, a single soldier out of thousands and they made that news.

And the Taliban are merely cameljockeys who will surrender by Summer 2002, Iraq will become a flag waving bastion of Freedom once Saddam is put on trial, and Mexico will pay for the wall.

You’re sure showing me…..

The most intelligent bit of writing I’ve ever seen sums it up nicely

[tn1911]

First of all…

In case you’re wondering, here’s where I stopped reading, spewed my coffee and began laughing at you.

[Firefly]

And on a separate note, my ultimate fears (only intelligent people need respond):

-Russia turns Ukraine into another Chechnya with more long term consequences
-Ukraine will never be the same after this. Fact is that there is indeed a lot of secessionist desire in Eastern Ukraine. That’s real. The ethnic Russians in those regions will be the last to go.
-This creates a lot of internal strife within the EU and NATO which will suck the US into spending more time and money we don’t have
-Yet another energy crisis but more Eurocentric
-Chinese skullduggery (like it or not, they often side with Russia especially now. They are economically intertwined)

And when I see grown men parroting obvious propaganda like this were some Spielberg movie; it’s cringe.

This isn’t going away. The Cold War DID end, but people wanted to keep it going so they could feel smug and stay employed in their positions. Like it’s some big Tom Clancy novel.

Ukraine has been corrupt for a good while now. And the smug people that are citing the very sources that now call Ukraine heroic are the the same sources whom 5 years ago were calling it a cesspool of money laundering and human trafficking. Which is REAL. I personally worked a few Ivan trafficking hits when I was in the South.

This isn’t a GI Joe cartoon. And I don’t think anybody is getting out of this cheap and easy.

Netflix and Chill is the new Bread and Circuses

[Firefly]

In case you’re wondering, here’s where I stopped reading, spewed my coffee and began laughing at you.

We’ll see

[tn1911]

Attacks against NATO allies critical infrastructure to be met with determined response - NATO chief

https://www.reuters.com/world/attack...source=twitter

[SomeOtherGuy]

And on a separate note, my ultimate fears (only intelligent people need respond):

-Russia turns Ukraine into another Chechnya with more long term consequences
-Ukraine will never be the same after this. Fact is that there is indeed a lot of secessionist desire in Eastern Ukraine. That’s real. The ethnic Russians in those regions will be the last to go.
-This creates a lot of internal strife within the EU and NATO which will suck the US into spending more time and money we don’t have
-Yet another energy crisis but more Eurocentric
-Chinese skullduggery (like it or not, they often side with Russia especially now. They are economically intertwined)

This is a good list. Ukraine is probably the next Iraq and Libya, or worse, though with less sand and much hotter women.

China is wisely trying to stay out of the morass, while prepping its takeover of Taiwan. Unlike Ukraine, Taiwan might be worth defending.

The really big picture play is that the declining Anglo empire (US, UK) is doing the equivalent of shooting your hunting buddy in the leg so that the bear eats him while you run away. "I can't outrun the bear, but I can outrun you." All the idiocy right now is crippling Europe's economy for the foreseeable future, and it's not by chance.

There are lots of other plays and motivations going on - the US Democratic Party leadership use of Ukraine as their black-money corruption pit (examples: Biden family, Pelosi), arms maker profiteering, everyone wants to try out their newest weapons in actual combat, Poland's ancient grudge against both Germany and Russia (somewhat justified if you know European history), multi-century grudges held against Russia by descendants of Russian Jews, Putin's belief that Russia needs to fulfill the cultural belief that they are the legitimate descendants of the Roman empire, etc. etc. Like a bad remake of the Spanish Civil War.

[tn1911]

Germany Believes High Explosive Devices Equivalent To "500 Kilograms Of TNT" Used To Destroy Nord Stream

https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deuts...witter#ref=rss

[chuckman]

And on a separate note, my ultimate fears (only intelligent people need respond):

-Russia turns Ukraine into another Chechnya with more long term consequences
-Ukraine will never be the same after this. Fact is that there is indeed a lot of secessionist desire in Eastern Ukraine. That’s real. The ethnic Russians in those regions will be the last to go.
-This creates a lot of internal strife within the EU and NATO which will suck the US into spending more time and money we don’t have
-Yet another energy crisis but more Eurocentric
-Chinese skullduggery (like it or not, they often side with Russia especially now. They are economically intertwined)

And when I see grown men parroting obvious propaganda like this were some Spielberg movie; it’s cringe.

This isn’t going away. The Cold War DID end, but people wanted to keep it going so they could feel smug and stay employed in their positions. Like it’s some big Tom Clancy novel.

Ukraine has been corrupt for a good while now. And the smug people that are citing the very sources that now call Ukraine heroic are the the same sources whom 5 years ago were calling it a cesspool of money laundering and human trafficking. Which is REAL. I personally worked a few Ivan trafficking hits when I was in the South.

This isn’t a GI Joe cartoon. And I don’t think anybody is getting out of this cheap and easy.

Netflix and Chill is the new Bread and Circuses

More than one thing can be true: Ukraine is a cesspool, and is heroic. US intervention/funding/equipping withstanding, the lowest common denominator is a sovereign nation was invaded. Doesn't matter why, and trying to justify it (not saying you are doing it) is tantamount to "she deserved to be raped because she was dressed like a slut."

I agree with much of what you said. This isn't going away anytime soon, and we're throwing bad money after good to the point that Ukraine will be the 51st state.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

This isn’t going away. The Cold War DID end, but people wanted to keep it going so they could feel smug and stay employed in their positions. Like it’s some big Tom Clancy novel.

You are right and then you are right again, but miss the point. This isn't going away, and we did win, and they lost the Cold War. "People wanted to keep it going" contradicts your first point "This isn't going away". The Cold War was actually a luke-warm peace that kept major-faction fighting in continental Europe from happening for 70 years- a good historical run frankly. The Cold 'War' has to be looked at in the context of great-nation alliance warfare that has raged in its current nation-state form for 300+ years, and before that for thousands. Please, please don't tell me that you think that the end of the Cold War meant an end to the power balance machinations that stretch back past Disraeli? The difference is that the West looked at the past and said -not again- and decided to try to get everyone 'into the tent' to try to stop the alliance power balancing that saw Britain trying to balance continental powers to keep France, Germany or anyone else gaining an advantage.

More than one thing can be true: Ukraine is a cesspool, and is heroic. US intervention/funding/equipping withstanding, the lowest common denominator is a sovereign nation was invaded. Doesn't matter why, and trying to justify it (not saying you are doing it) is tantamount to "she deserved to be raped because she was dressed like a slut."

I agree with much of what you said. This isn't going away anytime soon, and we're throwing bad money after good to the point that Ukraine will be the 51st state.

Cheap in US lives and treasure compared to other ways of blunting the Kremlin's ambitions.