Russian invasion of Ukraine discussion

[DG23]

Thank you for the Truth.



2. They invaded another nation with intent to annex in violation of a treaty they signed 8 years ago.

Ukraine was the one to not even TRY to follow the Minsk agreements nor did they ever have any intention of doing so from the very beginning. Poroshenko even publicly ADMITTED as much to more than one news outlet.

Petro Poroshenko has admitted that the 2015 ceasefire in Donbass, which he negotiated with Russia, France and Germany as president of Ukraine, was merely a distraction intended to buy time for Kiev to rebuild its military.

He made the comments in interviews with several news outlets this week, including Germany’s Deutsche Welle television and the Ukrainian branch of the US state-run Radio Free Europe. Poroshenko also defended his record as president between 2014 and 2019.

“We had achieved everything we wanted,” he said of the peace deal. “Our goal was to, first, stop the threat, or at least to delay the war – to secure eight years to restore economic growth and create powerful armed forces.”

He cited Sun Tzu’s stratagems as an inspiration for the deception. Winning a war does not necessarily require winning military engagements, Poroshenko said, calling the deal he made a win for Ukraine in that regard.

Poroshenko's deception is partly to blame for most of Western Ukraine needing candles and bottled water right now AND why Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson are all official Russian territory now (just like Crimea is).

Russia is going to win here no doubt. The only real question is how bad of a beat down they will have to put on Ukraine before they (Ukraine) figure it out and capitulate / ask for peace.

[tn1911]

Ukraine was the one to not even TRY to follow the Minsk agreements nor did they ever have any intention of doing so from the very beginning. Poroshenko even publicly ADMITTED as much to more than one news outlet.



Poroshenko's deception is partly to blame for most of Western Ukraine needing candles and bottled water right now AND why Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson are all official Russian territory now (just like Crimea is).

Russia is going to win here no doubt. The only real question is how bad of a beat down they will have to put on Ukraine before they (Ukraine) figure it out and capitulate / ask for peace.

For everyone wondering why DG23 never sources his quotes, it’s because they’re from Russian state media...

https://www.rt.com/russia/557307-por...nsk-agreement/

[pinzgauer]

Well it's the wrong treaty anyway, which is partially my fault as I said 2014. It was actually the earlier Budapest treaty where:

Russia, the US and the UK confirmed their recognition of Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine becoming parties to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons and effectively abandoning their nuclear arsenal to Russia and that they agreed to the following:

1. Respect the signatory's independence and sovereignty in the existing borders.

2. Refrain from the threat or the use of force against the signatory.

3. Refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by the signatory of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind.

So Ukraine gave their nuclear arsenal to Russia under pressure from the Clinton administration with the pretense that Russia would honor their borders and not attack or coerce them.

[DG23]

I actually like DG. I nag him and I don't agree with a damn thing he says, but at least he is pretty close to open in his pro-Russian bias. I don't mind you having a side, just own it.

Not necessarily pro Russian but definitely pro 'If we can do it and get away with it - We should not say shit when others do the same'.

Good for the goose is good for the gander...

Or, If you live in a glass house do not start throwing stones...



If we can pull off 'shock and awe' on Iraq and darn near instantly take out their electricity and water from the get-go with ease (and in the end figure out they had NO WMD's like we claimed as our 'justification' of those actions at the time) - Who are we to say anything about Russia using the (nearly) the same tactic against a country they are in conflict with???

Why are we still in Syria? Could have sworn they were a sovereign country... Ohh, Wait, I just remembered. We are not 'at war' with them. It is just a special 'operation' of ours. We may (or may not) leave some day.


For 'International Law' to be FAIR. Everyone needs to follow the same set of rules. Sadly, We constantly break the same rules that we try to impose on everyone else. Works all fine and well on small countries that can't defend themselves but not so much against countries that can (or if a bunch of those smaller countries all team up to give us the middle finger).

I also REALLY like the US Dollar currently being the worlds reserve currency of choice. That fact alone buys us a lot of power and a lot of abilities we would not otherwise have. Very fearful of when the day comes that that is not the case and very much feel that as we steadily push our adversaries one at a time closer and closer together that we are speeding up that days arrival.

Also well aware of how much our (and other) media lies (or 'misleads' if you want to say it more politely) to us.

Getting to the point that whatever they say on any subject I am inclined to by default believe the opposite to be true.

[tn1911]

Not necessarily pro Russian but....

LOL...

You’re more pro Russia than the two actual Russians I know and they’re both born, raised and educated pre wall coming down Russians.

You’re a solid secretary of the treasury Putin fan club pro Russian if I ever seen one.

[DG23]

For everyone wondering why DG23 never sources his quotes, it’s because they’re from Russian state media...

https://www.rt.com/russia/557307-por...nsk-agreement/

Did he say that stuff or not?

[tn1911]

I also REALLY like the US Dollar currently being the worlds reserve currency of choice.

Earlier you were very much pro Chinamart, now you’re US dollar world currency OK?

Man... you are all over the map, that’s for sure.

[tn1911]

Did he say that stuff or not?

I’m sure the Putin fan club news letter said he did...

[gsd2053]

I’m sure the Putin fan club news letter said he did...

That's the problem. We draw conclusions based off of what the side we think we like says. To confirm in our mind that we are in the right.

Unfortunately that's how propaganda works. I don’t have enough information to pick a side in this. All I really know is. My tax man is feeding one of the dogs really expensive dog food and there's nothing I can do about it.

[tn1911]

Russian Military Leaders Discussed Use of Nuclear Weapons, U.S. Officials Say

https://dnyuz.com/2022/11/02/russian...officials-say/

WASHINGTON — Senior Russian military leaders recently had conversations to discuss when and how Moscow might use a tactical nuclear weapon in Ukraine, contributing to heightened concern in Washington and allied capitals, according to multiple senior American officials.

Bet this is why the British prime minister was so worried about the weather…