Russian invasion of Ukraine discussion

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Tucker isn’t news. He’s angertainment. He makes confused angry faces at a camera for a living.

And the worldliest creepiest laugh outside of Kamamamala….

I like him. Liked him since he wrote that article about running with some private security firm in Iraq. It’s just sometimes he seems to try to jam a narrative that just isn’t there.

[pinzgauer]

DG23 is so proud of the fact that Russia launched an icebreaker and a satellite and uses that to show how they're winning over Ukraine...

Just a reminder, at the beginning of the year, Ukraine was:

-a relatively poor nation that had been dealing with over a decade of Russian interference, and invasion to annex territory

- expected to fall within a couple of weeks when Russia invaded mainland Ukraine

- a determined adversary who learned from the earlier invasions where Russia dominated with electronic warfare. They planned for that and went low tech In the trenches, and high-tech where it mattered in terms of infrastructure

So while Ukraine was stronger than it is now, it never had satellite launch capability, etc to my knowledge.

Russia has enough internal conflict right now due to this war and forced recruitment that combined with financial impact of the lower cost of oil, etc, or they might still be launched in satellites, they are a very weekend country.

Ukraine is holding its own in an unfair battle where Russia can safely use very long-range weapons to strike into Ukraine, but the weapons the West provided to Ukraine are restricted in range intentionally. (Himars munitions specifically was modified)

Some of this was due to posturing by Putin and the White House obliged. But if attacks on civilian centers continue much, those range restrictions may be removed.

[DG23]

Some of this was due to posturing by Putin and the White House obliged. But if attacks on civilian centers continue much, those range restrictions may be removed.

Which is WHY Russia stepped in and is not about to back down any time soon.

How do you not see that?

What were the Minsk 'agreements' mainly even about???


Agreements that pretty much everyone from the west knows and admits now were only a ploy to buy time to prepare for military actions on the part of Kiev against those Russians...

[pinzgauer]

Dude, You always conveniently forget the agreement where Ukraine gave away its nukes in return for promises that the US and Russia would protect its territorial sovereignty.

Same for always bringing up Syria or Afghanistan or whatever. The US has no desire/intention to annex those countries and make them part of the US. Which is not true for Russia and the Ukraine.

Putin himself has given multiple speeches on why Ukraine should be part of Russia, that it was the biggest tragedy in the last hundred years that it was allowed to become independent at the fall of the Soviet Union, etcetera.

If Putin wants to fight in the Donbass or similar contested areas you'll probably see the restrictions on weapons stay the same.

But if he keeps targeting way away from those contested areas focusing on civilian targets, the restrictions on the himars might (rightfully) be removed.

[tn1911]

Dude, You always conveniently forget...

The total tonnage of stuff DG has to ignore to continue pushing his absurd position could stun a team of oxen in its tracks.

[Diamondback]

But if he keeps targeting way away from those contested areas focusing on civilian targets, the restrictions on the himars might (rightfully) be removed.

This. Russia chose Total War rules, under Total War that would make their own civ pop fair-game in reply. If I were a Uke I'd be wanting to Party Like It's Dresden 1945 in Russkietown...

[seb5]

This. Russia chose Total War rules, under Total War that would make their own civ pop fair-game in reply. If I were a Uke I'd be wanting to Party Like It's Dresden 1945 in Russkietown...

As long as NATO is providing weapons and money this will not happen. Their idea of the moral highroad, however mistaken is a real thing to them, and us. They need to loose some of that misplaced chivalry.

[Diamondback]

I personally share that chivalry, just noting that if barbarian animals had massacred my friends/family/neighbors *I* would want to repay in kind too.

[1168]

But if he keeps targeting way away from those contested areas focusing on civilian targets, the restrictions on the himars might (rightfully) be removed.

I’m only speculating, but I wonder if they’ll get an updated air defense system more capable of dealing with incoming missiles instead. That would also add a layer of complexity to the air war. Dunno, just speculating out loud.

[DG23]

The total tonnage of stuff DG has to ignore to continue pushing his absurd position could stun a team of oxen in its tracks.

You regularly ignore our history and the precedents that WE set during our military 'operations'...

Officials at the Pentagon and at NATO headquarters in Belgium said allied jets deliberately attacked the power grid, aiming to shut it down more completely and for longer periods than at any time previously in the two-month-old air campaign. U.S. officials estimated the attacks had shut off power to about 80 percent of Serbia.

Allied officials said the attacks were intended to disrupt operations by the Serb-led Yugoslav military in Kosovo, the focus of the conflict, and not target civilians. But by increasing the hardship of ordinary citizens, alliance leaders also appeared to be seeking to encourage public disaffection with the government of Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic.

Here in Belgrade, where rage against NATO during the initial days of the three-month-old bombing campaign has lapsed into weariness for many residents, the prospect of sustained blackouts brought renewed anger toward the alliance. Some cited the power outages as evidence that the genuine aim of NATO is not to expel Yugoslav troops and Serbian special police units from Kosovo, but to punish civilians and wreck the country.

The attacks also slashed water reserves by damaging pumps and cutting electricity to the few pumps that were still operative. Belgrade's water utility said that reserves of drinking water had been reduced to 8 percent, according to the Beta news agency, and that 60 percent of the city was without water service. The agency said authorities were trying to restore water to most city residents by midnight.

A NATO spokesman, Peter Daniel, insisted that allied warplanes were not targeting the Yugoslav water system or main power plants. Instead, he said, the attacks were aimed at "the transformers and the edges, so to speak, of the electricity-generating system."

Still, military officials confirmed that the objective of using conventional explosives against parts of the power grid was to cause longer-lasting disruptions of electrical service. "It's fair to say we made the decision that we're going to attack some elements of it in a way that's going to take it down for longer than it would have been," said a senior officer at the Pentagon.

If good for the goose - It is good for the gander.

EXCELLENT video on how hard it is to 'restart' a power grid after any sort of blackout:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOSnQM1Zu4w