Russian invasion of Ukraine discussion

[DG23]

I hope they have been very well trained otherwise they got DU plated coffins.

They are not getting tanks with that 'special' armor.

Pentagon spokesperson Sabrina Singh specified that the tanks would be from the M1A2 version and as they are not available in excess in U.S. stocks, they would be purchased through Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative.

The M1A2 version is equipped with an upgraded targeting system, an independent thermal sight for the tank commander and a battle management system that allows information sharing.

The key feature of this version is, however, second generation depleted uranium armor packages. According to Politico, these packages will be removed from the tanks which will be supplied to Kiv forces in line with U.S. federal rules, which forbid the exporting of this classified armor.

One U.S. defense official told Politico that the Pentagon is planning to provide Ukraine with the M1A2 version in an “exportable” form. This means that the classified armor will be replaced with what is called FMS [foreign military sales] armor packages.

But yes, The UAF are still going to burn even in those US tanks...

[DG23]

https://twitter.com/HungaryBased/sta...85545930608640

Collection at the Roma settlement in Szürte (Syurte) Transcarpathia. Adults are being "collected" with kids crying for their fathers.



Soldiers raided a coffee shop in the district of Beregsász (Berehove). Beregszász is the closest city to the Hungarian border just 5km away. The city is demographically 48% Hungarian.



On the streets of Nagyszőlős (Vynohradiv), soldiers appeared patrolling the streets entering every building.






These guys do not want to fight or be cannon fodder for the US / NATO / USkraine war against Russia.

Does not matter what they want though. If you are an adult male in USkraine - You are in the army now! (or soon will be).

With the travel ban prohibiting any males between 18 and 60 from leaving the country and their prompt 'collection' if they are caught anywhere out in public - These guys are screwed.



https://twitter.com/HungaryBased/sta...32734720581632

The report came from the Hungarian Metropol news outlet. They state each wagon can load approximately 500 corpses. The Ukrainian government regulates the rate at which the corpses are released, 4-5 a day, and when they inform the families.

[WillBrink]

https://twitter.com/HungaryBased/sta...85545930608640

Collection at the Roma settlement in Szürte (Syurte) Transcarpathia. Adults are being "collected" with kids crying for their fathers.

And? A post that confirms, (1) Doing what every country does and has done during war time: rounding up those who don't wish to fight to defend their nation/don't believe in the cause, to fight. Hence why so many went to Canada from the US during 'Nam, why so many left Russia, etc.

(2) People die in wars, war is an ugly business, and leaders will always attempt to control the narratives to their nations and themselves best advantage. Pics of body bags of the dead during war, who would of thunked it? The only relevant issue is who is losing more men and gear and who can sustain.

I don't have any problems believing the Russians are doing better in some areas then western sources claim, I'm 100% convinced, due to actually communicating with some people actually there, the many sources we can see, interviews by various fighters who are very honest about how corrupt, etc Ukraine is, etc, that Russia's expectations for an easy win have been dashed . They are in a real nasty meat grinder of a conflict which they were completely not prepared for or expecting.*

There's zero for "gotcha" info in your post here, just the ugly realities of war, proxy war, etc.

* Me, from day one I said Russia would likley win the major engagements, but would find themselves in a asymmetrical guerrilla conflict that would be what they experienced in Afg look like a good day. That the west decided to step up the plate and go legit proxy war is the major reason that didn't happen it seems. What is strange to me is why with my limited background and access to intel I figured that out while so many supposed SME's had the Ukranian's being totally ended within weeks. Since the the last Russian incursion the west has been sending their best to train the Ukranians for that next conflict and I was told by someone who did just that, the Ukrainian's they worked with were GTG and would be force multipliers and be a real PITA to the Russians. No doubt, all plans in place years before to supply the real edge they have: real time intel from eyes in the sky for real time targeting and responses to Russian movements.

[mack7.62]

They are not getting tanks with that 'special' armor.

But yes, The UAF are still going to burn even in those US tanks...

And your point is? Question DG would you rather go to war in a Abrams/Leopard 2 or T-62/72/80/90. Next question which tanks will have better crew survival rates, longer and better hit probability? I think we all know the answer to these questions, but keep shilling for Russia.

[WillBrink]

And your point is? Question DG would you rather go to war in a Abrams/Leopard 2 or T-62/72/80/90. Next question which tanks will have better crew survival rates, longer and better hit probability? I think we all know the answer to these questions, but keep shilling for Russia.

My understanding is most feel the Leapord is the better choice for them in that they run on diesel, easier to maintain, and require less training. I'd also read the Abram's were a deal struck with the US that Germany and related did not want to be the country sending MBT's that could really kick the Russians in the nads, and the US had to also send some MBT's to get Leopardess sent, so Russia could not singularly blame Germany etc so the Abrams are as much symbolic as they are not most practical.

Oddest of all is, supposedly the Abrams will not come from existing US supply, but will be built for Ukraine. How long does it take to build that many Abrams MBT's? Might be a long time until they actually see any, but that opens the doors now for the Leopards and perhaps other MBT's to get sent. Politics and war always go hand in hand sadly.

[tn1911]

Ukrainian officers have been given tactical tank training in UK ‘for months’, says ex-British Army commander

https://inews.co.uk/news/ukrainian-o...mander-2110940

Ukrainian military officers have been receiving tactical tank training in the UK and Germany for months, a former British Army tank commander has said.

Lieutenant-General David Leakey, who served in the Royal Tank Regiment, said he believes the amount of tanks being sent by the West is not enough and that they must be used “in clout, not dribble” to punch through Russian lines.

He called for Ukraine to receive the “full orchestra” of military capability from other countries.

This and several journalists have been reporting via Twitter that word is coming out about Ukrainian tank crews have been training up on leopards and challengers for months now.

[DG23]

And your point is? Question DG would you rather go to war in a Abrams/Leopard 2 or T-62/72/80/90. Next question which tanks will have better crew survival rates, longer and better hit probability? I think we all know the answer to these questions, but keep shilling for Russia.

Maintenance matters.

If not set up for or knowledgeable enough to be able to maintain the more advanced weapon and it is only in service for ??? % of the time due to that then what?

That and the crew experience level on those weapons...


UAF troops are not likely to be anywhere near as effective as US soldiers (that have been training on and USING that for YEARS) with respect to survivability or hits.

[DG23]

Oddest of all is, supposedly the Abrams will not come from existing US supply, but will be built for Ukraine. How long does it take to build that many Abrams MBT's? Might be a long time until they actually see any, but that opens the doors now for the Leopards and perhaps other MBT's to get sent. Politics and war always go hand in hand sadly.

The Ukrainian military will be boosted by Leopard 2 main battle tanks by the end of March at the latest, Germany’s new defense minister Boris Pistorius has promised.

He made the statement on Thursday as he visited German troops in the central state of Saxony-Anhalt.

Journalists asked the minister if he was concerned that the delivery of German-made Leopard 2s would come too late for Ukraine in light of suggestions that Russia may be planning a spring offensive.

“I don’t have any hints that it could be too late. I think we will deliver our Leopards the latest, maybe, at the end of March,” Pistorius replied, adding that he believed this would be “early enough.”

He qualified that statement with a 'maybe'...

[WillBrink]

Maintenance matters.

If not set up for or knowledgeable enough to be able to maintain the more advanced weapon and it is only in service for ??? % of the time due to that then what?

That and the crew experience level on those weapons...


UAF troops are not likely to be anywhere near as effective as US soldiers (that have been training on and USING that for YEARS) with respect to survivability or hits.

Per #2155, Abrams are going because a deal was struck with the US and Germany and others apparently to spread the blame and risks of sending MBT's, they refused to send Leopards if the US was not willing to send Abrams. No doubts the focus and training will be on the Leopard's perhaps Challengers. Is more a political move then a mil/tactical one. This is telling of how some cronies will no doubt profit along the way, as they are actually purchasing and building the tanks vs simply sending what exists:

"It is also unclear why the Biden administration is deciding to buy Abrams tanks for Ukraine instead of providing the Ukrainians with tanks that the U.S. military already has."

“The way that they are doing this: The way they got to the decision and the way that they have decided to implement the decision does not convey a sense of urgency about helping Ukraine win,” said retired Army Lt. Gen. Ben Hodges, former commander of U.S. Army Europe."

https://taskandpurpose.com/news/us-m...tanks-ukraine/

I don't think they will be seeing those tanks for a long time while Leopards will be arriving far sooner, and that's intentional.

[utahjeepr]

My understanding is that the US and German tanks are basically window dressing to seal the deal. Other nations will be shipping sooner. Some even rumored to have been loaded and ready to go last week, just waiting on a "shipping label" so to speak.

US law requires "export models only" for many types of arms sales, MBTs being one.

Personally I would expect any Abrams shipped over will likely be used in the rear almost like defensive fortifications. The Ukes don't have the logistical foundation to field them effectively as combined arms at this time. Just my opinion.