Russian invasion of Ukraine discussion

[WillBrink]

“Admitted” is not the word you are looking for. “Claimed” might be more appropriate. When Prigozhin admitted to interfering in US elections, he was acting as a tool of the Russian government. Zeihan writes some interesting things and makes some interesting opinion videos, but does not speak for the US gov. See the difference?

Russia did not “retaliate”. They simply invaded a neighbor in a land grab. Twice. And created an insurgency on another occasion in a manner similar to an invasion. This is fact, not opinion.

I guess the counter to that will be how the Obama admin interfered in Ukrainian politics big time to push a US/west friendly leader, and Putin has been consistent in his threats that he would not allow Russia to be surrounded NATO/western countries.

There's always layers on layers of that. I support Ukraine's right to exist as a sovereign nation and call me crazy, prefer a western friendly nation there vs unfriendly, and the Russians, Chinese, etc all playing to same geo political game to undermine the US. Cold war never ended, and the Chinese are playing much better 3d chess then the Russians are, and as I have said for years, time to stop worrying about what's happening in far away lands and start focusing on what's happening in out own back yard:

[prepare]

IMO US hegemony is the cause/action of the war and Putin's invasion is the reaction.

[WillBrink]

IMO US hegemony is the cause/action of the war and Putin's invasion is the reaction.

Long live US hegemony. The entire planet has benefited from it for 70+ years more then they could ever realize or appreciate, but for those nations that would like to take our place. My issue is more Russia is now a minor threat to world stability and US hegemony (cuz we won, they lost), where as China is a legit threat. Russia is playing checkers, China is playing chess.

[pinzgauer]

Russia did not “retaliate”. They simply invaded a neighbor in a land grab. Twice. And created an insurgency on another occasion in a manner similar to an invasion. This is fact, not opinion.

Plus similar in Georgia

I guess the counter to that will be how the Obama admin interfered in Ukrainian politics big time to push a US/west friendly leader, and Putin has been consistent in his threats that he would not allow Russia to be surrounded NATO/western countries.

No matter the outcome Russia is always going to be surrounded by NATO allied countries. Whether they occupy Ukraine or not.

It's very clear from his speeches that these actions are an attempt to rebuild the empire of the Soviet Union. In particular Ukraine which he ranted and railed for 15 minutes that it was one of the tragedies that they allowed it to become independent.

IMO US hegemony is the cause/action of the war and Putin's invasion is the reaction.

Go read the transcripts of Putin's speeches. The US could have been completely isolationist and Putin still would have likely invaded Ukraine because he believes passionately it should be part of Russia.

Likewise, none as in zero, of the ex Soviets states have any desire of intention of invading or even threatening Russia. They only want to be left alone. They are looking westward not eastward, wanting to move into EU prosperity.

By his very actions Putin has pushed the Baltics and Poland into the Western orbit. If you recall Poland's military buildup occurred when Putin got sporty in Georgia and Crimea.

The Ukraine invasion just solidified that, to the point that Poland has more leopards now than Germany does. And probably is strong enough to take Russia by itself if it had any desire to do so.

[WillBrink]

Plus similar in Georgia





No matter the outcome Russia is always going to be surrounded by NATO allied countries. Whether they occupy Ukraine or not.

It's very clear from his speeches that these actions are an attempt to rebuild the empire of the Soviet Union. In particular Ukraine which he ranted and railed for 15 minutes that it was one of the tragedies that they allowed it to become independent.



Go read the transcripts of Putin's speeches. The US could have been completely isolationist and Putin still would have likely invaded Ukraine because he believes passionately it should be part of Russia.

Likewise, none as in zero, of the ex Soviets states have any desire of intention of invading or even threatening Russia. They only want to be left alone. They are looking westward not eastward, wanting to move into EU prosperity.

By his very actions Putin has pushed the Baltics and Poland into the Western orbit. If you recall Poland's military buildup occurred when Putin got sporty in Georgia and Crimea.

The Ukraine invasion just solidified that, to the point that Poland has more leopards now than Germany does. And probably is strong enough to take Russia by itself if it had any desire to do so.

No debate from me, but Putin has been specific about that issue of Ukraine being US friendly and making noises about joining NATO. By GDP, it's all the countries on the border with Russia sending the most $ and gear to Ukraine, and that's all people need to know: They want to use Ukraine to grind the Russians into dirt, win or lose so they are incapable of invading another neighbor state. That's not US hegemony, that's anyone with a border with Russia knowing what their the plans are for them if/when, Russia wins in Ukraine. "Win" or lose in Ukraine, Russia will be totally depleted by this war and that's the idea.

[1168]

No debate from me, but Putin has been specific about that issue of Ukraine being US friendly and making noises about joining NATO.

As far as a casus belli goes, that makes as much sense as me invading my neighbors house and killing him because he sometimes barbecues with the neighbor on the other side. I’m fairly certain that would go poorly in criminal court and the court of public opinion, plus he would be justified in shooting me in the face as I make entry. Either way, neither neighbors are buying my shitty moonshine anymore.

[prepare]

Long live US hegemony. The entire planet has benefited from it for 70+ years more then they could ever realize or appreciate, but for those nations that would like to take our place. My issue is more Russia is now a minor threat to world stability and US hegemony (cuz we won, they lost), where as China is a legit threat. Russia is playing checkers, China is playing chess.

The entire planet benefitting from the US is a valid point.

Go read the transcripts of Putin's speeches. The US could have been completely isolationist and Putin still would have likely invaded Ukraine because he believes passionately it should be part of Russia.

Likewise, none as in zero, of the ex Soviets states have any desire of intention of invading or even threatening Russia. They only want to be left alone. They are looking westward not eastward, wanting to move into EU prosperity.

By his very actions Putin has pushed the Baltics and Poland into the Western orbit. If you recall Poland's military buildup occurred when Putin got sporty in Georgia and Crimea.

The Ukraine invasion just solidified that, to the point that Poland has more leopards now than Germany does. And probably is strong enough to take Russia by itself if it had any desire to do so.

So is you're point about the transcripts.

I committed to being open minded about this and my views have shifted. I have become SO distrustful of our government that I automatically suspect foul play with everything they're involved in. Perhaps thats true with any government. I'm also reluctant to support anything this administration does period. And I sure as hell don't want to go to war with these idiots in charge.

The corruption between the US, Russia, and Ukraine is epic. It's a shit sandwich.

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

Looks like the Russians finally went to the hobby shop


Dramatic moment Russian drone boat packed with explosives smashes key Ukrainian bridge as Putin unleashes new war weapon that Moscow hopes will turn tide of war

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...an-bridge.html

[tn1911]

Ukraine prepared to use British missiles to strike Crimea

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/u...imea-d73rlk23p

Ukraine is prepared to use British long-range missiles to hit Crimea, the peninsula annexed by Russia in 2014, in a potential major escalation of western involvement in the war.
Rishi Sunak promised to send Ukraine more military aid following a visit by President Zelensky to Britain this week. Discussions are now taking place over whether this should include Harpoon anti-ship missiles or surface-to-air Storm Shadows.
Ukrainian defence sources confirmed to The Times that Kyiv would be prepared to use the missiles to strike Crimea following a warning from Zelensky that longer-range weapons from western allies would strike “deep in the occupied territories”.
Zelensky met European parliamentarians in Brussels, where he renewed demands for fighter jets as Russia appeared to launch a long-anticipated offensive in eastern Ukraine. “We are defending against the most anti-European force of the modern world,” Zelensky said. “We are defending ourselves — we Ukrainians on the battlefield — along with you.”
Harpoon missiles cost about £1.2 million each and have a maximum range of 150 miles. Storm Shadow missiles cost about £2.2 million and can fire at targets as far as 350 miles away, although modified versions for export have a significantly shorter range.

Talks are now taking place to decide exactly how many British long-range missiles could be sent, despite previous concerns that enabling Ukraine to launch cross-border strikes on Russia could escalate the conflict.

Looks like things in Crimea are about to get sporty!

[The Dumb Gun Collector]