Russian invasion of Ukraine discussion

[WillBrink]

Speaking of throwing bodies - Ukrainian sites leaked a document allegedly reporting own losses of 191,000 man confirmed killed and wounded. This is military losses. This does not take into account POWs, MIAs, or unconfirmed losses or the losses from paramilitary groups or foreign volunteers. As I understand they don't even count civilian losses and just generate numbers randomly for western press.

If Ukrainian side wants to dispute those numbers I'd be willing to hear their officially published figures.

Personally I take all such numbers with a big grain of salt. Could be higher, may be lower, no doubt a wide margin of error from them with obvious potential for invented numbers for political theater and such. The Uke's have little to lose by making it a total grinder for the Russians, no matter the costs. For them, it's for whole ball O wax to lose and once you lived under a dictatorship, you tend to fight to the last man and bullet as a free man vs that BS.

Said when all this started, "win" or lose, Putin already lost.

[tn1911]

100,000 North Korean soldiers could be sent to bolster Putin’s forces fighting Ukraine

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...8ad2d9fa38dff0

As if this Russian led $hit show couldn’t get any more comical...

[utahjeepr]

Speaking of throwing bodies - Ukrainian sites leaked a document allegedly reporting own losses of 191,000 man confirmed killed and wounded. This is military losses. This does not take into account POWs, MIAs, or unconfirmed losses or the losses from paramilitary groups or foreign volunteers. As I understand they don't even count civilian losses and just generate numbers randomly for western press.

If Ukrainian side wants to dispute those numbers I'd be willing to hear their officially published figures.

I can't buy that number. I wouldn't buy it if someone was claiming it as Rooskie casualties either so it ain't about a side. Them there is major engagement numbers in a heavy slog. The type of action necessary to generate that amount of casualties is not something I have seen in this campaign thus far.

Not calling anyone out, just saying that the numbers don't jive with the action on the ground as I understand it to be.

[tn1911]

Russia has stopped concealing the fact that it is forming a 3rd Army Corps to be deployed in Ukraine, staffed with male servicemen aged 18 to 50 without prior military experience.

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato...raine-isw.html

[alx01]

The Uke's have little to lose

I think this is where most people get it wrong. This was a false narrative created by a media to frame a public opinion/perception of the conflict (both domestically in Ukraine and abroad).

Ukrainian government has little to lose because this is about a regime/direction change for the country. Similar to what happened in Iraq/Libya. Not an existential threat to Ukrainians as a nation/nationality. I said it before, and I'll say it again - it was a responsibility of the Ukrainian government to do everything in their powers to prevent a conflict. Instead, in the last 8 years they've doubled the army, and it appears they have done everything to provoke Russians both domestically and internationally.

If you honestly look back at Iraq - yes, we did wreck some havoc, but most casualties and issues were caused by Iraqi insurgents and political infighting. We made some strategic policy errors in Iraq, but if Iraqi had toppled Saddam, quickly organized the government and held elections without extreme violence we would have been out of there in 2-3 years. Losses would have been minimal to both Iraqi and US.

Do you remember us saying - "oh, there is so much military and political resistance to coalition occupation of Iraq, we'll just go back"?
Do you remember British saying - "there is so much military and political resistance to our presence in Northern Ireland (or Falklands for that matter), we'll just go back"?

If not, why do "political/military experts" in the press expect Russians to say that?

[alx01]

A perfect example of how the press is trying to poison readers' minds: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...m-vehicle.html

They threw in the article basically everything, destroyed tanks, ballet dancers, two dozens cities and towns, Russian advance, Russian retreat, Ukrainian advance, Ukrainian defense, British MOD statements. Basically everything to confuse the reader and extricate themselves in any future development.

What's the point of the article? Point is to keep Ukraine relevant in the headlines, article has no real purpose and does not reveal any new information. Reading between the lines I can see the following - Ukrainian politicians claim of impending attack against Russian forces, yet in a video Ukrainian colonel says "troops are gearing up to counter Russian advance" (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/ne...tml?mwv_rm=rta)

Nothing really new, same story has been circulating in press for months now.

[alx01]

double tap

[WillBrink]

I think this is where most people get it wrong. This was a false narrative created by a media to frame a public opinion/perception of the conflict (both domestically in Ukraine and abroad).

Ukrainian government has little to lose because this is about a regime/direction change for the country. Similar to what happened in Iraq/Libya. Not an existential threat to Ukrainians as a nation/nationality.

A foreign nation invading and planning to force your nation and its people to follow their rules at the end of a gun and puppet installed government, is an existential threat to the nation.

I said it before, and I'll say it again - it was a responsibility of the Ukrainian government to do everything in their powers to prevent a conflict. Instead, in the last 8 years they've doubled the army, and it appears they have done everything to provoke Russians both domestically and internationally.

After said nation invaded and annexed a part of your nation, they have every right and reason to work at improving their mil, and if Putin viewed that as provocation, F him.

The Ukes are far from perfect, and many no aware of corruption, criminal elements, etc, all of the old satellite nations are a mess post Communism and slowly making their way out of that dumpster fire.

If you honestly look back at Iraq - yes, we did wreck some havoc, but most casualties and issues were caused by Iraqi insurgents and political infighting. We made some strategic policy errors in Iraq, but if Iraqi had toppled Saddam, quickly organized the government and held elections without extreme violence we would have been out of there in 2-3 years. Losses would have been minimal to both Iraqi and US.

Do you remember us saying - "oh, there is so much military and political resistance to coalition occupation of Iraq, we'll just go back"?
Do you remember British saying - "there is so much military and political resistance to our presence in Northern Ireland (or Falklands for that matter), we'll just go back"?

If not, why do "political/military experts" in the press expect Russians to say that?

I'm not getting those parallels to the Russia/Uke conflict.

[Wake27]

Ukrainian government has little to lose because this is about a regime/direction change for the country. Similar to what happened in Iraq/Libya. Not an existential threat to Ukrainians as a nation/nationality. I said it before, and I'll say it again - it was a responsibility of the Ukrainian government to do everything in their powers to prevent a conflict. Instead, in the last 8 years they've doubled the army, and it appears they have done everything to provoke Russians both domestically and internationally.

And there’s the stupidest post I’ve read in a little while. Congrats.


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[WillBrink]

And there’s the stupidest post I’ve read in a little while. Congrats.


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Not sure if it's the stupidest per se, it also made no sense and or is dead wrong. I do suspect there's a lot of mechanizations going on in the background we are not privy to, and is connected to Brandon some how. There's some story as to O bummner admin, Brandon and his POS son, and Trump, we are not getting. That all this kicked off with Brandon admin is not coincidence. Maybe someone will expose a document some day that breaks it all open for us. As always, about $, power, and resources hidden behind usual (usually false...) narratives to get people to fight and die while the power brokers move pawns on the board.