Anyone else still use a shotgun for HD?

[Harpoon]

Don't get me wrong, I have AR-15's.
But the long gun in my bedroom is an 870 loaded with 7 #1 buckshot Rem Express rounds. That's 16 .30 cal pellets @1250fps per shot.
Of course I have other buckshot rounds also including Fed Flight Control rounds in #4 buck, #1 buck, and 00 buck.
I got my first 870 when I was 15, hunted everything around here with that. I and am very comfortable with an 870.
I know that hitting an intruder in my house with this round is going to make a mess of the walls, but so what. I have a can of drywall spackle and a putty knife.

[1168]

Sounds like you’ve got it figured out. SeriousStudent is knowledgeable on this topic.

[markm]

I'm building a 7mm PRC for Home Defense, but if you like the bird gun.... good on ya!

[ryr8828]

Have my 18 inch 870 with extended tube but longing for a semi auto with the same capacity.

[Harpoon]

I'm building a 7mm PRC for Home Defense, but if you like the bird gun.... good on ya!

When I say Home Defense I mean like inside your house, not 500 yards away.
And I don't think too many people use buckshot for bird hunting except maybe Ostriches.

[SeriousStudent]

Sounds like you’ve got it figured out. SeriousStudent is knowledgeable on this topic.

Gracias. As payback for summoning the Kraken, a long speech follows.

In the words of Pat Rogers (God rest his soul): "Mission drives the gear train."

In the words of SeriousStudent (that would be me): "Frequency and fluency assist proficiency."

If you have made a choice based on long experience with a particular platform, rock on.

If you have achieved what my friend John Hearne defines as "automaticity", rock on.

There are numerous firearms that I own that I honestly don't have to think about, they just run for me. Some of you are likely the same way. Moving through a course of fire, or a landscape or a building, you literally will the shots to happen. Brain says "Hey, I need to shoot that" and rounds go into the target. You have a failure to eject, and you automagically perform a tap-rack-bang drill.

A fair number of you have done that and not really noticed it happened until one of your friends said something. Euro, 1168, MarkM - I'll bet a really nice steak and a beer you guys have had that happen.

If you have that level of proficiency with a firearm - use that.

Do I have a shotgun next to the bed at night? Yeah, I do. "But the wretched man is an old fossil, and it's probably some ridiculous coach gun with exposed hammers firing black powder loads......"

The reasons for that shotgun: Location, effectiveness and mission.

Location: I live in a major metropolitan area in Texas, that becomes more blue every day. The "optics" are a very real thing. Shooting someone in my house that does not leave when ordered is not a small thing. The likelihood on only needing to fire a single round of Federal Flite Control 8-pellet 00 Buck (LE13200) is pretty good. It's more likely that I would need to fire more than one round out of a pistol, rifle, SBR or PCC.

On optics - I do believe after a lot of study and and a couple of thousand hours of civilian self-defense training, that I'm less likely to face criminal indictment or civil lawsuit, if I reduce the number of rounds I fire. That reinforces my desire to use a shotgun for home defense. And just for giggles, I'm doing the Force Science Institute's week-long "Use of Force" expert witness class. Because I'm a glutton for punishment.

Effectiveness: Shotguns work. I have seen a lot of shotgun wounds. I have not treated many of them. For those who are mathematically-challenged, that means the odds are in my favor with a shotgun.

Recoil can be tamed. If you know how to use the "Push-Pull" method that was popularized by Robb Haught, and taught by many others, you can run a shotgun very effectively. Pushing forward on the fore-end, and pull back on the stock. Act as if you are trying to tear the shotgun into two pieces at the receiver. I can do a three-day class this way with no brusies wearing a T-shirt. I've seen me do it.

And short-stroking is a thing. I would honestly recommend a GOOD semi-auto for that reason. I own multiple Beretta 1301's, Benelli M2's, and they are very, very reliable. I honestly don't know how many pump guns I own, probably two dozen.

You can definitely short-stroke a shotgun, I have done it, as have many others. The shotgun next to my bedside these days is either a Beretta 1301 of some sort, or some variation on a Benelli M2.

Mission: I'm not clearing houses. Not even my own. I'm bunkering down behind a deadbolted solid-core wood door in the master bedroom, and hitting a button that turns on every light in the house, plus all the exterior lights. There's a old cell phone plugged into a charger on the nightstand, on the far side of the room from the door. Dial 911 on speaker, and chamber a round.

Shotgun are a lot like mortars. They are large tubes, that use a larger round, and have to be manually loaded. Just like mortars, they are devastating when used from a fixed position by a trained operator. A couple of you have likely been on the receiving end of mortars. The suck factor is pretty high when that happens, ain't it?

Think about your situation. If you are going to have to clear your house to snatch up/locate loved ones, then a pistol with a weapon mounted light AND a separate handheld light; or a suppressed carbine/SBR looks mighty attractive, right?

For those of you who have cleared buildings, you know that a one-man clear pretty much pegs the Suck-O-Meter, and is the second to last choice. Last choice being listening to a loved one being raped/murdered, of course.

If you have the advantage of holing up in a hardened room and denying entry into that room, I would humbly submit a shotgun is a supportable option.

And ponder this - a SBS with a 14" or shorter barrel extends from the body about as much as a service pistol does, at the low ready.

If you do use a shotgun, just remember to pattern it with the specific load you pick, at useful distances. EVERY shotgun has a unique pattern. Inside my house, that is a lasered zero to 16.7 meters. I would politely suggest that from 3-25 meters, a shotgun is an eminently suitable choice.

I do not have a dog in this fight - you do. Use what you like and feel comfortable with. If that is a shotgun, carbine, pistol, icepick, rabid Chihuahua - do it. And best of luck to you.

[C-grunt]

Ive never seen someone continue to fight after taking a proper defensive load to the chest or head. I did see one guy that took a round of 00 buck through the side run about 10-15 feet before he died. Usually though they fall where they stood.

On the other hand a few years back I got in a gunfight with a guy whacked out on meth. Shot him with my Colt 6920 using Federal TRU 55 grain Gameking. The round went through his forearm, entered his chest just below his arm pit, shredded his lung, and then punched through his heart. Dude flinched a little bit. I initially thought I missed him because he barely reacted. He then charged at me and pointed his pistol at me again. The second shot hit him in the lower chest, blew up his liver, ripped his diaphragm, and lodged in his spine. Only then did he finally lay down.

All that being said, an AR is my primary HD weapon. Ive used it professionally for 20 years now. Like SeriousStudent says, I can run the gun without even thinking about it. I'll trade the familiarity and other benefits outlined by others over the step up in lethality.

[WillBrink]

Ive never seen someone continue to fight after taking a proper defensive load to the chest or head. I did see one guy that took a round of 00 buck through the side run about 10-15 feet before he died. Usually though they fall where they stood.

On the other hand a few years back I got in a gunfight with a guy whacked out on meth. Shot him with my Colt 6920 using Federal TRU 55 grain Gameking. The round went through his forearm, entered his chest just below his arm pit, shredded his lung, and then punched through his heart. Dude flinched a little bit. I initially thought I missed him because he barely reacted. He then charged at me and pointed his pistol at me again. The second shot hit him in the lower chest, blew up his liver, ripped his diaphragm, and lodged in his spine. Only then did he finally lay down.

All that being said, an AR is my primary HD weapon. Ive used it professionally for 20 years now. Like SeriousStudent says, I can run the gun without even thinking about it. I'll trade the familiarity and other benefits outlined by others over the step up in lethality.

Very interesting story, thanx for telling that. I just wanted to bold that part as every LEO I know/spoken with who has been involved in OIS, said the same thing. I think no matter how well we know that's a thing, we are still conditioned due to decades 1000 of shows and movies watched, that when shot, people show obvious signs of being shot in various ways, and until you experience it (I have not) just can't fully appreciate the reality of it when they show no obvious outward signs of being shot. Obviously that's especially true of handgun loads in typical duty loads, but even long gun in some cases. I may have to use your write up as another example and reminder!

[flenna]

I would not chose a shotgun as my primary HD long gun but would not feel undergunned if it was my only long gun for HD. I have a lot of time on a pump gun due to it being our only authorized long gun at the PD long before patrol rifles were normalized. Once patrol rifles became standard the 12 gauge was relegated to less than lethal use, but I digress.

[prepare]

Wise words here from Steve Fisher...mirrors what SeriousStudent posted.