Help me decide / educate me on buffers.

[1168]

I have no record of M4 or M4A1 ever having the H1 buffer.

It may have been a SOPMOD, but general service M4s went from three steel weights (P/N 9390023/NSN 1005-01-231-3138, assn 1986-04-05) to the two tungsten/one steel buffer (P/N 13004468/NSN 1005-01-522-0772, assn 2004-07-16).

Interesting; thanks.

[lysander]

To be more clear, what I meant was: did the M4a1s that left the factory prior to 2003 with H1s get upraded with H2s during the time period that they still had govt profile barrels? Like, an armorer level upgrade. Or did that not occur until the “SOCOM” profile barrel upgrade?

Okay, I made an error.

Here is the latest information I have on buffer development in the M4 Carbine:

The XM4 and early M4/M4A1s used the Standard weight buffer, P/N 8448730.

In 1997, the single tungsten weight (H) buffer was introduced, P/N 9390023. You are correct in stating that the H1 was used early in the M4 series. My reference that indicated P/N 9390023 was the standard weight buffer was wrong.

Then in 2003, the two tungsten weight (H2) buffer, P/N 13004468 was approved.

[markm]

The XM4 and early M4/M4A1s used the Standard weight buffer, P/N 8448730.

Boggles my mind that the standard buffer was ever deemed appropriate. It's literally good for NOTHING.

[1168]

Okay, I made an error.

Here is the latest information I have on buffer development in the M4 Carbine:

The XM4 and early M4/M4A1s used the Standard weight buffer, P/N 8448730.

In 1997, the single tungsten weight (H) buffer was introduced, P/N 9390023. You are correct in stating that the H1 was used early in the M4 series. My reference that indicated P/N 9390023 was the standard weight buffer was wrong.

Then in 2003, the two tungsten weight (H2) buffer, P/N 13004468 was approved.

Thanks, I was wondering if I’d lost my mind.

[okie]

H2 is almost always the way to go. If in doubt, H2.

My personal definition of proper gassing is if you can fire the rifle straight vertical into the dirt and lock back on an empty GI mag on the coldest day of the year, using your preferred ammo. So if it'll do that on an H3, run the H3. If it fails on the H3, step back down to the H2. If it still fails to lock back, step down to H.

That said, my experience is that anything over 12" is pretty much a gimme unless it has a weird out of spec gas port, in which case all bets are off. Shorties can be a bit more tricky, especially moving back and forth between 223 and 556. Since you have a 14.5, either H or H2 should be a gimme. If you primarily shoot 223 as your defensive load, you might want to error on the side of caution and use the H. If you use 556, then you should be really safe with the H2.

[1168]

My M4A1 conventional clone eats whatever with its H2. It’d be fine with an H1, as well.

Just shoot it.

[MistWolf]

Every cycling, extraction or ejection problem that gets posted about here and that same guy blames it on the extractor spring...

No matter what - 'You need a new Colt extractor spring'.

Because I go with the percentages. When troubleshooting ejection problems, 90% of the time replacing the extractor spring fixes it. Or the spring isn’t replaced and nothing else does fix it.

I didn’t say an AR won’t work with carbine or H1 buffers. They can and do. But in my experience, ARs with H2, A5H2 or Rifle buffers shoot smoother. With a carbine buffer, recoil can be sharp enough that it’s painful after a couple of mags. I see no reason to put up with a carbine buffer when it’s simple enough to pop in an H2.

[DG23]

With a carbine buffer, recoil can be sharp enough that it’s painful after a couple of mags. I see no reason to put up with a carbine buffer when it’s simple enough to pop in an H2.

You definitely need to stay away from .223 bolt action guns if the rounds are causing YOU that much pain.

None of my kids ever had the same problems you seem to have with .223 or 5.56 recoil regardless of the buffer weight.

[okie]

Can't say I've ever experienced any discomfort from AR recoil, even an SBR with a carbine buffer. After several hundred rounds' worth of drills my arms start to go numb and my back starts seizing up, but never experienced any pain like I do after many rounds with a shotgun or M14.

[markm]

You definitely need to stay away from .223 bolt action guns if the rounds are causing YOU that much pain.

None of my kids ever had the same problems you seem to have with .223 or 5.56 recoil regardless of the buffer weight.

You're missing the point. The bolt speed is WAY too fast with a carbine buffer. It's not good for anything. There's no upside to running it... EVER.

The Carbine buffer is why the collective "we" (AR Carbine shooters) used to to completely retarded shit like put O-rings in our extractors. (The bad buffer combined with oversized ports too)

That guy RSilvers did the match. He quantified the H2 as the optimal buffer weight for the carbine gas system. I'm no engineer, but he is.