EOTECH Vudu 1-10x28 Fails!

[SteveL]

This has been my big gripe with FFP LPVOs for years. At 1x the reticle is too fine to see. Even if the illumination is legit bright enough to make it useable in bright daylight, the battery life in a LPVO is poor enough that I don't want to have to rely on it. So basically if I'm running a 1-6 or 1-8 I want SFP with a reticle I can see without illumination and it's not really negotiable. 1-10, I still think I'd favor a SFP.

[bp7178]

Here are some screen shots I borrowed from a youtu.be review. Note the size of the speed ring in relation to the "target."







I assume the illumination is set to max here. Note the size and intensity of the central aiming point in these images. Granted some dimming is likely due to variations in cameras, screens, etc.


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Do you not think you'd could deliver effective shots on target? It isn't perfect sure, but IMO, remains effective.

There are different technologies which can be used for illumination, granted it isn't the best but its a compromise. Don't like it, get something else and drive on.

[mebiuspower]

This has been my big gripe with FFP LPVOs for years. At 1x the reticle is too fine to see. Even if the illumination is legit bright enough to make it useable in bright daylight, the battery life in a LPVO is poor enough that I don't want to have to rely on it. So basically if I'm running a 1-6 or 1-8 I want SFP with a reticle I can see without illumination and it's not really negotiable. 1-10, I still think I'd favor a SFP.

Vudu 1-8x is SFP and offers daylight bright red dot in center of reticle.

[drtywk]

When you consider that "daylight bright" is a subjective term, then you are going to see a broad range/variance in what manufacturers bring to market. Are they all going to be Aimpoint or Vortex Razor bright, no, although some will be close and others will not. The only way to get some commonality in reticle brightness is to have a quantifiable standard for everyone to achieve. Which isn't going to happen. These also have etched reticles and how the illumination hits the reticle will be different, regardless of the environment.

As with all FFP reticles, the reticle is intended to grow as you go higher in magnification. There is no way in hell that I am trying to use any type of MIL/MOA/BDC reticle at 1x, so why, in your opinion, do you think you should be able to? This is why there is a speed ring and center dot at 1x in the first place, as it allows the shooter to quickly engage targets at CQB range like a red dot. Red dots are far from being a precise reticle at longer distances, even though they can be used as such on a carbine/rifle that is designed around a 4MOA requirement. Hell, I can easily hit stationary targets at 500/600 meters with iron sights, but that same standard has some challenges when using a red dot, because the red dot is really limited to 200 and in, 300 if you're lucky, due to offsets and holds that can be challenging to some under stress.

[Tokarev]

Vudu 1-8x is SFP and offers daylight bright red dot in center of reticle.

That's good to know. Thanks for the info.

I'll see what happens with the Nightforce NX8 C654 when that variant hits the shelves late this year. I do have some first-hand experience with the 1-8x24 ATACR and find its reticle to be quite useful/visible across the power range. Down side is, of course, cost.

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[vicious_cb]

I mean you are paying $1700 for something competitive to the next best thing which costs $2500.

Equal glass quality
Equal eye box
Equal build quality and warranty
Equal reticle brightness

Pick 3

[Tokarev]

The Vudu FFP is the not the first scope of this type I've been disappointed with.

I guess it all depends on what the designers (and end users) have in mind as far as likely usage. As stated above, this is probably a decent scope if the purchaser wants a higher end magnification that can be occasionally dialed down to 1x or whatever. If the primary goal is something for long range or shooting groups on paper this is likely a good option.

On the other side of the application is shooters who've been using stuff like the Steiner P4xi or Razor Gen II-E. Those who might use the scope in applications often associated with red dots but who also want the option of dialing up to 4x or 6x if target ID or longer range is desired. This was my intention for the Vudu and I've found it not suited for this role.

The 1-10x24 Razor works pretty well as an all around optic. The central section of the reticle is bright enough when battery illuminated so the scope works pretty well as a red dot. And the segmented donut portion of the reticle is translucent at higher magnification so as not to completely obscure the target. But, as has been pointed out, the Razor is several hundred more than the Vudu.

With all this said, I recently picked up an SAI6 1-6x24mm scope and have been messing with it. It, like the Vudu, has a relatively dim max illumination. But that reticle is, in my opinion, a better design as it has four fairly thick stadia lines pointing to the center. These thick lines are fairly easily seen at lower power and come close enough together at the center to work pretty well at close range. Still probably not super precise at 100+ yards but better overall than the Vudu.

The Vudu itself has a high quality feel. I just find the reticle to be not as well thought out as it could have been.

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[turnburglar]

Hey Tok,

I don't blame you at all for being disappointed with this 1-10. I think a lot of posters see the top end magnification, price tag, and brand name and just assume its a great piece of glass. The more time I actually spend shooting Lpvo's I have come to the same conclusion that you have; is that they are a massive amount of specs packed into a very comprised platform. One thing we need to understand as consumers of optics are some foundational rule of glass. Optics will always be inherently limited by 1) physics and 2) manufacturer. In every optic there is a trade off, or ven diagram of trade offs happening.

I recently got to borrow a Razor 3 from a buddy because I was thinking about buying one. I was shocked how much I did not enjoy the optic given the price I was about to pay for one. No matter what I did with the diopter I felt like the 1x was both warped and I had a hard time shooting both eyes open. With a P4xi or Razor 2 I can easily shoot both eyes open on 1x; and even on higher magnification than that. Without illumination the reticle was kinda hard to pick up quickly. Besides a poor 1x the eye box got very tight above 6x. The reticle was useful from 6x on up, but under recoil it would regularly loose sight picture. For the match I shot I found I was leaving the R3 on 8x because that offered the most mag eye box trade off. At the end of the day I was very grateful to shoot this high dollar optic without paying for it.

For that eotech 1-10 I think that 1x reticle is a joke. Look at what Primary arms 1x reticles look like in the new Glx or Plx-c. Thats a proper use of the "aiming circle" that scales with magnification. What people dont realize is that reticle is MASSIVELY important to how shootable an optic is. Leica is a brand that has incredible glass and 19th century reticles.

My personal observation is that 30mm 1-6 SFP is typically the best optical quality from day light bright and good eye box and useful reticle. The 1-8/10 FFP 34mm start to get in massive trade off territory. Even the venerable Leupold mk6 is "only" a 6x high end on a 34mm tube and its got a 3.3mm exit pupil when other 30mm 6x has like a 4mm exit pupil.

Honestly a lot of really good shooters I know that even operate operationally have gone away from Lpvo's entirely. Day light bright 1x isn't reliable enough for combat use. They tight eye box and lack of glass for the price tag isn't appealing. The set up I am starting to see become really popular is the 2/3-10/15/18 with a top mounted RMR. The RMR is far more reliable and easier to shoot than the 1x on any Lpvo. On the bigger optic you get a MUCH larger eye box, way more top end magnification and better glass usually that all costs less than a quality Lpvo. For example I could probably get a Leupy Mk5 AND RMR for the same price as a Razor 3. The weight isn't even that much of a difference.

[mtnscar]

Tokarev, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I've been following the Vudu 1-10 considering picking one up but a few of the recent reviews have me questioning. The brightness is obviously the biggest con, which I can live with if it's good everywhere else. This review:

https://youtu.be/hxYW_WfctJs

talked about image quality not being great in higher magnification ranges, and a tight eyebox at 10x. Do you have the same thoughts or were you impressed with the optical clarity and eyebox at the top end?

[Tokarev]

Tokarev, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I've been following the Vudu 1-10 considering picking one up but a few of the recent reviews have me questioning. The brightness is obviously the biggest con, which I can live with if it's good everywhere else. This review talked about image quality not being great in higher magnification ranges, and a tight eyebox at 10x. Do you have the same thoughts or were you impressed with the optical clarity and eyebox at the top end?

I'd say this reviewer's thoughts and experiences closely aligned with mine although I'd say the illumination is essentially worthless as opposed to barely adequate or whatever words he uses.

Eye box is tight higher up as it is on the Razor. It is probably fine at 7x or 8x and may be unforgiving above that. I've found this also depends somewhat on the stock. I recently switched to a BCM Mod 1 stock thinking the wider comb would make cheek weld more consistent. I think it has actually made it a little worse. The wider stock seems to push my head off to the left a tiny bit.



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