I think the F1 scopes make no sense on LPVO scopes. Reticle disappears at 1X but works fine at 6-8-10X.
PB
"Air Force / Policeman / Fireman / Man of God / Friend of mine / R.I.P. Steve Lamy"
Are there any LVPO’s with 8 or 10 on the high end that have a good eye box at full magnification?
Obviously I haven’t used every option out there, but it seems 6x is about as far as you can push the high end without creating an intolerable eye box.
"We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
- George Orwell
Almost all 8x LPvo have a exit pupil (eye box'ish) of 3mm. The 10x should be something like 2.6mm. There is no way around the physics of optics. To have a true 1x you need a 24mm front lens and that doesn't play well with eye box. Thats why most 34mm looked warped at 1x. Physics. Trade offs. All the time. No way around it.
Go ahead and read the paragraph I wrote earlier about 'the people' that are abandoning LPVO's and why.
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Last edited by grizzman; 07-14-22 at 13:58.
Correct more often then not.
Maybe what we need is some thought and innovation in the SFP reticle. Often these reticles are nothing more than crosshairs with a bright center dot and maybe some hash marks for elevation holdovers.
Steiner is kind of trying to make something new with the P4xi G1 reticle. But they changed from a fiber optic dot to an etched illuminating triangle that isn't as bright.
Anyway, how hard would it be to create some sort of hybrid reticle that is SFP but contains some ranging, wind and trajectory info? Maybe a simple distance estimation scale in one corner that's sized to work at a middle magnification setting and a scale in the other corner that's sized to work at max magnification. Something kind of like what Leupold did a few years ago for the 300 Blackout sub / super reticle.
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“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."
There are hybrid reticles out there.
S&B and March has them.
https://marchscopes.com/scopes/d10sv24fiml/
Almost went with the 1-10x24 March but it's more than I had to spend so went with a NF 2.5-10x42.
Am aware of the S&B offering. It and the March become mostly academic discussions based on price. The Gen III razor is also mostly status symbol.
I should have clarified that the multiple ranging SFP reticle would be for something like the Vudu or even Viper PST. A more pedestrian optic for the masses.
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“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."
Based on a lot of the replies in this thread, it is obvious to me that some of you could use a really fast a dirty way to look at a spec sheet and even compare optics to each other.
The quality we are trying to empirically judge is the 'eye box' (its actually shaped like a double ended cone, but whatever). This is referring to the useable amount of space that the eyeball has a useful sight picture. On variable power optics the eye box will shrink as magnification increases. Most manufactures list the specs of their scopes, but you will notice nothing is actually listed on their website as an "eye box". The most useful specification that correlates to an 'eye box' is actually called the exit pupil. In our circumstances the larger the exit pupil, the larger the eye box feels. Other useful specifications that tell us a lot about an optic is the Field of view, and lastly eye relief. FOV is important as it controls how wide the optic can actually cover. Optics with a smaller FOV feel like looking through a paper towel roll, where as optics with a large FOV feel like you cant see the edges of the bezel.
Let's compare two well known optics empirically and see if the numbers back up the user experience.
Vortex Razor Gen 2: 1 - 6
Exit pupil: 24mm - 4mm
FOV: 115 - 20.5
Night Force Nx8: 1-8
Exit pupil: 7.9mm - 3mm
FOV: 106 - 13
As you can see at the 1x the Razor almost has triple the exit pupil of the Nx8. The Razor also has a wider field of view. This is synonymous with user experiences of:
"Razor 2 has a huge eye box!"
"Nx8 has a tiny eye box and is like looking through a tube"
Using the manufactures given numbers for Exit pupil and FOV you can even compare Lpvo's to other scopes. If one wanted too they could compare any number of optics on a spread sheet and have a very good idea of how the eye box will feel between two different models. You will QUICKLY see why serious shooters are scaling away from LPVO's when you start comparing optics in this way. The main benefit to this approach is that you dont actually have to spend the money or borrow an optic to find out you dont like the eye box. Too many of you think spending more money will somehow bend physics.
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