Ok dumb question on 762x39

[ABNAK]

So there is a lot of barrel whip in the AK design, but we had a AK guy in one of our carbine clubs and he ran a 100 series and typically scored in the top 5 ahead of lots of really good shooters running ARs. Now I believe he had to work a little harder to do that given relative magazine changes and manual of arms, but he still did it.

Yeah, I've seen the slo-mo videos and it is apparent. That said, is the bullet gone from the barrel before the "whip" takes place?

[ggammell]

Yeah, I've seen the slo-mo videos and it is apparent. That said, is the bullet gone from the barrel before the "whip" takes place?

Yes it is.

[1168]

I have carried an AK for real, and I have been shot at by AKs for real. I don't own an AK but I own a PTR 32 which uses AK mags and of course ammo.

I don't know what your financial situation is like, but if you can swing an AR I would tell you it would be a good move.

The AR/M16 from my perspective is an easier platform to use under stress than the AK. The AR is also possessing more inherent accuracy, than the AK.

You can get it done with an AK, you just need to work at it harder.

Yeah, this. It works. Hand me one and I won’t complain, but the M4 is better. Out to 300, the practical accuracy is close enough, but inferior. Holds are harder.

Yea.

Speaking of mag changes, I recall another shooting stage where the point seemed to be "let's **** with anyone not using an AR because we want to be an AR-only club" where shooters "raced" each other with reloads, 2 rds per mag vs 5 targets x2 IIRC.

Using my AK I kept up with an experienced AR user for two mags and four shots but I doomed myself from the start because I wasn't "running my own race". My mind went from "You got this, you got this!" to "Your doing great! Now don't **** up, now don't **** up!"

So of course I did bobble a mag change and that put me a couple seconds behind.

As said, AR mag changes are easier to be consistently good at IF you follow procedure.

The importance of a mag change for a CONUS civie? You be the judge. But if you must do one it's most likely due to a malfunction, damaged magazine, or inadvertently ejected magazine.

Also, nobody should be attempting a mag replacement when taking fire and not behind any Cov or Con. So the chances of that slightly slower mag change from your slower than an AR rifle being the thing that ends you are pretty damn remote.

Whack the mag release with the body of the reload.

[SteyrAUG]

Yeah, I've seen the slo-mo videos and it is apparent. That said, is the bullet gone from the barrel before the "whip" takes place?

OK, let me phrase better, the AK is a WWII design that permits LOTS of movement during the firing sequence before the round exits the weapon. That said, if you put in the time to learn THAT weapon, you can still school a lot of the AR crowd.

[ABNAK]

OK, let me phrase better, the AK is a WWII design that permits LOTS of movement during the firing sequence before the round exits the weapon. That said, if you put in the time to learn THAT weapon, you can still school a lot of the AR crowd.

Yeah, it's loose tolerances are probably why it has such a reputation for reliability. Doesn't contribute much in the accuracy department but goes BANG every time you pull the trigger. Something to be said for that, especially inside maybe 300 meters (?). Use a Mojo or KNS peep rear sight and one could be a real threat inside that distance. Screw the notch sights, never been a fan and especially now as I get older they suck.

[SteyrAUG]

Yeah, it's loose tolerances are probably why it has such a reputation for reliability. Doesn't contribute much in the accuracy department but goes BANG every time you pull the trigger. Something to be said for that, especially inside maybe 300 meters (?). Use a Mojo or KNS peep rear sight and one could be a real threat inside that distance. Screw the notch sights, never been a fan and especially now as I get older they suck.

If a person is even gonna attempt to keep up with competent AR shooters, you better have a red dot on top of your AK rifle. AK irons are pretty terrible and the graduations are about as reliable as a Magic 8 ball.

[Ron3]

If a person is even gonna attempt to keep up with competent AR shooters, you better have a red dot on top of your AK rifle. AK irons are pretty terrible and the graduations are about as reliable as a Magic 8 ball.

Damn straight.

The front is fine, especially for very close range, the rear is terrible.

HK irons are the best rifle irons I've used.

[okie]

Please don't take this as an attack; it's not intended that way. On the contrary, I'm here to help because I believe what you guys are doing is necessary and might be the difference between this country losing its freedoms or returning to a constitutional republic like it was intended. So please take what I'm about to say in the spirit of constructive love that it's intended.

You guys need to ditch this misguided plan. Straight up. There used to be practical reasons to use x39 and 5.45 when they were cheap and abundant, but that is no longer the case, and hasn't been for decades. Use 5.56. It's abundant, it's effective, and the best guns on planet earth are chambered for it.

Get yourselves some 2010 era LE6920s. They're still readily available on local used markets at very affordable prices. Make that the standard. You guys can likely sell your AKs for enough to just step right into them.

Outfit them with Aimpoint PRO red dots, 30 round PMAGS, and Vickers NSN slings. Use Wolf or Tulammo for training, and use Lake City for stockpiling. Doesn't matter whether it's M855 or M193; both work well enough, and you want the sealed primers.

Get the Army marksmanship manual and get really proficient at sighting them in at 25 meters. Not having access to a 100 yard range isn't a handicap. The Army has a 25 meter zero for that exact reason, because many ranges only go out 25 meters. The targets are abundant, and the procedures are clearly outlined in the manuals and online videos. The Aimpoint PRO is identical for all intents and purposes to the M68CCO that's likely the optic that's going to be featured in whatever version of the manual you'll get.

After sighting in, practice kneeling and standing. Then start doing easy drills. Stand facing the target and practice going from casual stance with rifle hanging to put two rounds on target as accurately as possible (speed will come naturally). Then start moving and shooting from cover.

I would suggest using airsoft for team movement drills, both for safety and cost savings. Airsoft is invaluable and way underrated as a training tool. Not playing airsoft, but just using the guns for practicing movement.

Next step is get some omni VII green phosphor PVS14s. Put KAC RIS two piece drop in rails on your LE6920s and mount Steiner OTAL Cs to them. Slave them together with a Surefire surplus M952V using a Unity TAPS, and now you have white and IR aiming and illumination at a very affordable price.

Would also suggest focusing more on pistol and less on rifle. That's the tool you'll most likely have at hand when it's needed, and it's the hardest to master, and translates into rifle. I.e. if you're good at shooting handguns you'll be naturally good at shooting rifles, but not the other way around. I would suggest trying to standardize as a group to 9mm, and double stack 9mm Glock if possible.

[1168]

Please don't take this as an attack; it's not intended that way. On the contrary, I'm here to help because I believe what you guys are doing is necessary and might be the difference between this country losing its freedoms or returning to a constitutional republic like it was intended. So please take what I'm about to say in the spirit of constructive love that it's intended.

You guys need to ditch this misguided plan. Straight up. There used to be practical reasons to use x39 and 5.45 when they were cheap and abundant, but that is no longer the case, and hasn't been for decades. Use 5.56. It's abundant, it's effective, and the best guns on planet earth are chambered for it.

Get yourselves some 2010 era LE6920s. They're still readily available on local used markets at very affordable prices. Make that the standard. You guys can likely sell your AKs for enough to just step right into them.

Outfit them with Aimpoint PRO red dots, 30 round PMAGS, and Vickers NSN slings. Use Wolf or Tulammo for training, and use Lake City for stockpiling. Doesn't matter whether it's M855 or M193; both work well enough, and you want the sealed primers.

Get the Army marksmanship manual and get really proficient at sighting them in at 25 meters. Not having access to a 100 yard range isn't a handicap. The Army has a 25 meter zero for that exact reason, because many ranges only go out 25 meters. The targets are abundant, and the procedures are clearly outlined in the manuals and online videos. The Aimpoint PRO is identical for all intents and purposes to the M68CCO that's likely the optic that's going to be featured in whatever version of the manual you'll get.

After sighting in, practice kneeling and standing. Then start doing easy drills. Stand facing the target and practice going from casual stance with rifle hanging to put two rounds on target as accurately as possible (speed will come naturally). Then start moving and shooting from cover.

I would suggest using airsoft for team movement drills, both for safety and cost savings. Airsoft is invaluable and way underrated as a training tool. Not playing airsoft, but just using the guns for practicing movement.

Next step is get some omni VII green phosphor PVS14s. Put KAC RIS two piece drop in rails on your LE6920s and mount Steiner OTAL Cs to them. Slave them together with a Surefire surplus M952V using a Unity TAPS, and now you have white and IR aiming and illumination at a very affordable price.

Would also suggest focusing more on pistol and less on rifle. That's the tool you'll most likely have at hand when it's needed, and it's the hardest to master, and translates into rifle. I.e. if you're good at shooting handguns you'll be naturally good at shooting rifles, but not the other way around. I would suggest trying to standardize as a group to 9mm, and double stack 9mm Glock if possible.

TC 3-20.40

Also consider the Comp M4/s, which is the current M68.

[okie]

TC 3-20.40

Also consider the Comp M4/s, which is the current M68.

I do believe the CompM4 to be the better option, despite the high price. Much cleaner glass and most importantly in my opinion AA battery compatibility. The supply chain crises of the last two years really got me thinking about the need for commonality. I ditched my PEQ and got an OTAL C, and I'm planning to trade the M68 for a CompM4 and my 600V for a 600AAV. I also bit the bullet and spent the 400 dollars on the remote battery pack for my PAS29. I saved the dot and light for last since they were least critical of all. The only thing I can't convert to AA is my RMR, and unfortunately that's my only aiming system for my Glock that's NV compatible, but you do what you can. It's my daily carry, so putting an IR module on it would just be too impractical from several perspectives.