What ammo for in MP5-type guns? JHP's?

[SteyrAUG]

As far as I know they were factory-roller bolts without hot-rod monkeying with different rollers.

Assuming you know this, but for everyone else, all rollers should be factory. After a long, long...long time larger rollers are used to bring MP5s with worn chamber recesses back into accepted standards of performance.

The only other times people fret about rollers is the clone crowd trying to correct for out of spec manufacturing.

There is the famous NASA MP5 (training gun) that went well over 500,000 rounds and rollers, and other small parts like extractors, were replaced over time before it was retired for performance issues. The MP5 design definitely has redundant extraction features. There are several instances of MP5s that proved to have broken extractor springs that were still cycling because of fluted chambers.

[AndyLate]

There is the famous NASA MP5 (training gun) that went well over 500,000 rounds and rollers, and other small parts like extractors, were replaced over time before it was retired for performance issues.

Holy cow.

Andy

[sinister]

WeaponsMan
Quiet Professionals, Noisy Machinery

https://www.billstclair.com/weaponsm...html%3Fp=22695


"An MP5 Shot for How Many Rounds? 571,000. Seriously.

Most service-weapon users (meaning, the organizations, more than the men) do a really lousy job of tracking how many rounds go through their weapons. This results in things like some of the crappy-shooting old rifles units have in their arms rooms, and also in a lot of money wasted overhauling guns that aren’t really due for it yet (because maintenance is done “on schedule”), or spending a fortune on periodic inspections (so that maintenance can be done “on condition”). The average line-unit armorer is a supply clerk, trained to rack and un-rack rifles and maintain accountability; he lacks the training and inspectional technology to determine when any firearm needs to be overhauled, absent a truly egregious problem.

And while the Army wants guns to count their own rounds, we’re not there yet. (And they haven’t yet considered the CI implications of round counters on rifles).

The security force at Kennedy Space Center in the 1980s did count rounds through their training weapons, and so they set, as far as anybody knows, the record for the World’s Most Used MP5. The story is told in Frank W. James’s 1996 book, Project 64: The MP5 Submachine Gun Story. (Now, unfortunately, out of print and rather pricey on the secondary market; his 2003 book on the MP5 may or may not have the same content, but it’s out of print, too).

Depending on training demand, Serial Number 316019 fired from 3,000 to 15,000 rounds a month, every month, in its five-and-a-half-year service life, from August, 1984, to January 1990. Peak year was 1988, with a staggering 128,000 rounds going downrange from the HK subgun.

It didn’t make it all the way to its end count of 571,600 rounds with all the original parts, but it did have the original barrel — grossly out of spec, it’s true — and most major parts. The parts that failed are ones that will be familiar to anyone who’s run MP5s, and were all replaced at end-unit armorer level: firing pins and springs, extractors and springs, rollers, roller holders and pins, and various other springs, plus some parts physically damaged in training, like a handguard and a retractible (A3) stock. Some parts, like extractor springs, for example, have a wear-out schedule or recommended replacement point in HK maintenance documents, but KSC ran the guns “on condition” and went far beyond the recommended intervals before replacing these parts.

It was still working, after a fashion, in 1990, but had lost all accuracy and had headspace issues (both are probable results of the worn barrel). HK would have refurbished the gun, but it would have cost nearly as much as buying a new one, so the facility bought new guns instead.

The gun does not appear to have been fired after January 1990, but it was formally withdrawn from service in 1992.

It would be nice to say that the gun wound up going back to Oberndorf for engineers to study, or wound up in a museum in light of its very high round-count, but in fact it wound up initially being cannibalized to keep the Center’s other old MP5s running, and then being destroyed.

It was only a machine, but some of us are sentimental about our machines. We will always believe that it deserved a better end."

[DaBigBR]

Assuming no QC problems, MKE is technically a HK contract firearm and would be perfectly acceptable in a HD role.

Perfectly acceptable in that it has mildly better ballistics than a long slide Glock, a complicated and relatively unintuitive manual of arms, and overall not great light or optic mounting options.

For the vast, vast majority of people, a pistol or AR will offer advantages. There is a reason submachine guns are on life support (at best) in military and LE roles.

[SteyrAUG]

Perfectly acceptable in that it has mildly better ballistics than a long slide Glock, a complicated and relatively unintuitive manual of arms, and overall not great light or optic mounting options.

For the vast, vast majority of people, a pistol or AR will offer advantages. There is a reason submachine guns are on life support (at best) in military and LE roles.

Won't catch me saying it beats a M4, but if you can't figure out how to mount lights and optics, that's your fault. Manual of arms is less complicated than a pump shotgun if you actually train with the weapon.

SMGs and PCCs are very, very special application for MIL and LE, but for your average home defender they beat the shit out of any handgun. Three points of contact always beat two points of contact. Platform for slings, optics and lights (not to mention suppressors and mag capacity) make this not even debatable.

[Grim.Patriot]

I run a HK SP5 SBR with a variety of 115gr., 124gr. and 147gr. ball and HP ammo without a hiccup. Shoots fine with all the bullet weights both suppressed and unsuppressed. Though not my first choice, if i were to look to this fine firearm up for personal protection, I’d load it up with Federal 147gr. HST and mount a 3-lug suppressor. Very effective while very quiet.

[AndyLate]

Won't catch me saying it beats a M4, but if you can't figure out how to mount lights and optics, that's your fault. Manual of arms is less complicated than a pump shotgun if you actually train with the weapon.

SMGs and PCCs are very, very special application for MIL and LE, but for your average home defender they beat the shit out of any handgun. Three points of contact always beat two points of contact. Platform for slings, optics and lights (not to mention suppressors and mag capacity) make this not even debatable.

Opinion only, but I would rather fire a 10-11" 9mm PCC/SBR/SMG in my home sans ear pro than a 9mm pistol, a shotgun or an M4. They are not ear safe, but certainly quieter than the other three alternatives.

I should add that I do not have enough confidence in my only PCC to bump either my G17 or AR out of the bedroom safe.

Andy

[SteyrAUG]

Opinion only, but I would rather fire a 10-11" 9mm PCC/SBR/SMG in my home sans ear pro than a 9mm pistol, a shotgun or an M4. They are not ear safe, but certainly quieter than the other three alternatives.

I should add that I do not have enough confidence in my only PCC to bump either my G17 or AR out of the bedroom safe.

Andy

Adding on to that thought, the one thing that made SMGs/PPCs practical all those years was effective suppression. In 1995 suppressors for ARs were still really loud, and usually pretty big. That is what really changed, you can now get a 5.56 platform down to similar size and weight as a MP5 and you can get really decent suppression out of some of your higher end cans.

[Ron3]

Adding on to that thought, the one thing that made SMGs/PPCs practical all those years was effective suppression. In 1995 suppressors for ARs were still really loud, and usually pretty big. That is what really changed, you can now get a 5.56 platform down to similar size and weight as a MP5 and you can get really decent suppression out of some of your higher end cans.

Ends up alot longer than unsuppressed MP5K though.

[bigkracka]

I didn't buy my MKE cause it's a practical HD weapon. I bought it cause its cool and wanted one ever since I saw Die Hard.