Carry handle question

[okie]

It sounds and looks normal to me.

[rifleman8]

100% normal / within spec. Welcome to the A2 / A3 sighting system.

When the M16 Product Improvement Program of the early 1980's was cranking up The Army pretty much gave the Marine Corps a free hand in most of the details. The Marine Corps pretty much handed it to the competition gurus at Quantico. There are a few things which ended up in the final M-16 A2 configuration that can lead to some "head scratching" when viewed through a gun-fighters eye. When viewed through the eye of a service rifle competition shooter things make slightly more sense. But like the man said ".... We ain't going to Wyoming to shoot canteens boy...."

Bottom line the A2 sights work VERY well for the service rifle precision critera of that era. Canted rear base and all. If they hadn't The boys at MTU Quantico would have had changes made quicker then a jack rabbit gets a date.

Back in the day Armalite was offering a "National Match" base which had a spring and detent on both the right and left sides. It was a decent product that worked well - got rid of the cant for us OCD types - which as previously pointed out is from spring tension on just one side. If memory serves they only offered this for the A2, and not the detachable handle

[Gulfton]

Some actually shim them but totally unnecessary.

But wouldn't that at least marginally improve accuracy?

(New guy here who just got a mil-spec PSA carry handle sight for a PSA M4 build, and I thought something was wrong with the sight. Joined the Forum to bring up that very question and then spotted this thread.)

[DG23]

But wouldn't that at least marginally improve accuracy?

(New guy here who just got a mil-spec PSA carry handle sight for a PSA M4 build, and I thought something was wrong with the sight. Joined the Forum to bring up that very question and then spotted this thread.)

Yes.

Pinning is how places like CLE do it currently (and for a good many years now). They are not shimming or using 2 detents as the other guy mentioned.

[Gulfton]

Yes.

Pinning is how places like CLE do it currently (and for a good many years now). They are not shimming or using 2 detents as the other guy mentioned.

The thought of shimming was intuitive to me as I would see a gap open on the right when I would mash the platform back that way; I have a gap gauge and found a range of thickness that would keep the gap from closing completely and hold everything in line.

What exactly is pinning? Putting a little "door stop" in there somewhere to inhibit the leftward movement of the right side of the platform?

And finally, does CLE refer to Compass Lake Engineering?

[markm]

Why anyone would shim or whatever is curious. The sight pivots on the center of the apperture, so shimming doesn't accomplish anything.

I know the Camp Perry type shooters have more precise sight rigs, but for non-competition shooting, there's no need to modify an "in-spec" sight system.

I did have a piece of shit bushmaster where the rear sight would track off to the right as it dialed up. I refused to accept it for a long time until I set up paper at 50 or 100 and watched the bullet holes drift up and right as I dialed the sight up.

[markm]

100% normal. Every Colt carry handle I've owned was cockeyed like that. Or oriented towards 11 o'clock, there's spring pressure pushing it that way, and the play is normal. It's one of those things where you go "huh, that's weird..." then you go shoot the gun and never think about it again. At least I never thought about it again until this thread popped up.

We're in an ARFCOM wormhole back to like 2005. I think most people new to the A2/A4 sight look it over with some curiosity.

But now, most shooters have an RDS or some sight, and never shoot iron field sights... let alone dial for distance. It's fun marksmanship shooting and stretches your rifle reach.

[Gulfton]

The sight pivots on the center of the apperture, so shimming doesn't accomplish anything.

Wouldn't it allow you to sight through a circle instead of an ellipse?

[opngrnd]

Wouldn't it allow you to sight through a circle instead of an ellipse?

The center of an oval (if you can even tell while firing) is the same as the center of a circle. I've fired out to 500yds on known distance ranges and approx 500yds on unknown distance and it didn't make a practical difference. The rack grade rifle still made hits to the capability of the ammo. To reliably produce a basketball size group on target at those ranges is obtained by properly dialing windage and elevation combined with basic fundamentals.

[markm]

Wouldn't it allow you to sight through a circle instead of an ellipse?

The app simply does not can't that much.