Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 20 of 20

Thread: Winchester 64 gr 223 "Defense Tip"

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    The Absent Minded Perfesser
    Posts
    7,276
    Feedback Score
    4 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Straight Shooter View Post
    Would be awesome if someone knew Doc Roberts and could entice him back into the fold- & IMMEDIATELY 86 anyone who starts anymore shit with him or Molon. These guys bring FACTS & INFO and are very needed here. Molon- thank you for coming back, sir.
    I've been looking and haven't been able to find anything from Doc *anywhere* since not long after he put up the "Just A Dentist" avs.
    Ye best start believin' in Orwellian Dystopias, mateys... yer LIVIN' in one!
    --after Capt. Hector Barbossa
    Joe Biden is not, nor will he EVER be, my President. Psalms 109:8 and 43:1

    LIFE MEMBER - NRA & SAF Not employed or sponsored by any manufacturer, distributor or retailer.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Patron State of Shooting
    Posts
    4,396
    Feedback Score
    2 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    I've been looking and haven't been able to find anything from Doc *anywhere* since not long after he put up the "Just A Dentist" avs.
    Thats a shame. Besides He & Molon, there were a few more here when I came aboard who really knew their stuff, that have been gone for a long time now, due to petty ass troll shit from people who hadnt shot 100 rounds a year in their lives.
    The obedient always think of themselves as virtuous rather than the cowards they really are.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    The Absent Minded Perfesser
    Posts
    7,276
    Feedback Score
    4 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Straight Shooter View Post
    Thats a shame. Besides He & Molon, there were a few more here when I came aboard who really knew their stuff, that have been gone for a long time now, due to petty ass troll shit from people who hadnt shot 100 rounds a year in their lives.
    Be nice, *I* haven't been able to do 100/yr for many years... but at least have the humility to admit I have a lot to learn and seek the "wisdom of the tribe" for when I have the Old Ones squared away and CAN start training more often. Back in college, a hundred rounds was ONE very short session... we were usually doing 60-round courses, and I had to do three (two weakside one strong, kind of an "improvised physical therapy regimen" to help gain more use of my right arm) for each set my buddies did.
    Ye best start believin' in Orwellian Dystopias, mateys... yer LIVIN' in one!
    --after Capt. Hector Barbossa
    Joe Biden is not, nor will he EVER be, my President. Psalms 109:8 and 43:1

    LIFE MEMBER - NRA & SAF Not employed or sponsored by any manufacturer, distributor or retailer.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Patron State of Shooting
    Posts
    4,396
    Feedback Score
    2 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    Be nice, *I* haven't been able to do 100/yr for many years... but at least have the humility to admit I have a lot to learn and seek the "wisdom of the tribe" for when I have the Old Ones squared away and CAN start training more often. Back in college, a hundred rounds was ONE very short session... we were usually doing 60-round courses, and I had to do three (two weakside one strong, kind of an "improvised physical therapy regimen" to help gain more use of my right arm) for each set my buddies did.
    And YOU my friend, are the way its supposed to be. No need for any explanation...rock on. Youve got a valid reason...the punks I refer to dont.
    The obedient always think of themselves as virtuous rather than the cowards they really are.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
    Location
    Southern Maryland
    Posts
    401
    Feedback Score
    0
    A quick check on Winchesters site shows quite a difference in advertized muzzle velocity.
    .223 64 gr Defense tip, 2700 fps.
    .223 64 gr Deer Season XP, 3020 fps.
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Lowcountry, SC.
    Posts
    5,602
    Feedback Score
    28 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Harpoon View Post
    A quick check on Winchesters site shows quite a difference in advertized muzzle velocity.
    .223 64 gr Defense tip, 2700 fps.
    .223 64 gr Deer Season XP, 3020 fps.
    Barrel length, probably. Molon got enough more than advertised velocity out of Defense Tip with his 20, that I suspect W chronoed it in a 16. And they probably did Deer Season in a 24.

    Fusion and Fusion MSR advertised vs observed velocities are another good example of this.
    RLTW

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkM View Post
    Guns attract retards like moths to a porch light
    Quote Originally Posted by C-grunt View Post
    When i become a billionaire Im going to throw a LWRC into your yard every night.
    Disclosure: I am affiliated PRN with a tactical training center, but I speak only for myself. I have no idea what we sell, other than CLP and training. I receive no income from sale of goods.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    The Absent Minded Perfesser
    Posts
    7,276
    Feedback Score
    4 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by 1168 View Post
    Barrel length, probably. Molon got enough more than advertised velocity out of Defense Tip with his 20”, that I suspect W chronoed it in a 16”. And they probably did Deer Season in a 24”.

    Fusion and Fusion MSR advertised vs observed velocities are another good example of this.
    Offtopic: My memory's shot, but what was the consensus about which of the two Fusions was "preferred" and which was "it'll do but not as well"? Sorry, estate crap is turning my brain into a scrambled egg even more than usual--just got another recurring bill transferred off my aunt's credit cards and onto my debit card DAYS before it was due to post next charge.
    Ye best start believin' in Orwellian Dystopias, mateys... yer LIVIN' in one!
    --after Capt. Hector Barbossa
    Joe Biden is not, nor will he EVER be, my President. Psalms 109:8 and 43:1

    LIFE MEMBER - NRA & SAF Not employed or sponsored by any manufacturer, distributor or retailer.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    11,296
    Feedback Score
    46 (100%)
    Doctor Roberts does post in the Ammunition sub-forum over on Pistol-Forum.com.

    https://pistol-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?19-Ammunition

    I certainly would not wish to have his work schedule. He does say really busy, between his teaching and surgical career at one of the top medical schools and hospitals in the world. But if I got shot in the face, I would ask them to fly me to California so he can work on the damage.

    Regarding .223 ammo for self defense, I've been split between the Federal Fusion, Speer Gold Dot and the Barnes TSX loads. I do believe Doctor Roberts, Molon and Chuck Haggard recommend that load. I'll ask them and see what they say.

    I agree with 1168 on the Fusion loads. From all my research, they seem to work very well harvesting deer or defending you family against human predators.

    Hope that helps.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    11,296
    Feedback Score
    46 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    Offtopic: My memory's shot, but what was the consensus about which of the two Fusions was "preferred" and which was "it'll do but not as well"? Sorry, estate crap is turning my brain into a scrambled egg even more than usual--just got another recurring bill transferred off my aunt's credit cards and onto my debit card DAYS before it was due to post next charge.
    Off the top of my head, you might reach out to Chris Baker at Lucky Gunner and ask him.

    Chris is just a super guy with a great company, and really knows his ammo and tactics. He will not steer you wrong.

    I was in a shotgun class with him a few weeks ago, and it was great to catch up. His articles in the "Lucky Gunner Lounge" on his website are a terrific resource.

    Hope that helps.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    1,450
    Feedback Score
    0
    Federal 62 Grain Fusion vs Federal 62 Grain Fusion MSR vs Speer LE 62 Grain Gold Dot





    The muzzle velocities shown in the tables below were obtained back-to-back during the same chronograph session using recent lots of all three of the Fusion/Gold Dot loads chrongographed.

    Atmospheric Conditions


    Temperature: 73 degrees F (plus or minus one degree)
    Barometric Pressure: 29.68 inches of Hg
    Humidity: 62%
    Altitude: 950 feet above sea level



    Muzzle velocities from a 20 Colt M16A2 barrel with a NATO chamber, chrome lining and a 1:7 twist.





    Muzzle velocities from a 14.5 Noveske N4 light barrel with a NATO chamber, chrome lining and a 1:7 twist.






    10-shot groups were fired from one of my precision AR-15s with a Lothar-Walther barrel with a 223 Wylde chamber and a 1:8 twist. The groups were fired from the bench at a distance of 100 yards with the same sight settings on the scope for each of the three groups.

















    Left to right: 1. 62 grain Fusion, 2. 62 grain Gold Dot, 3. 64 grain Gold Dot, 4. 75 grain Gold Dot


    ...
    All that is necessary for trolls to flourish, is for good men to do nothing.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •