Geissele 14.5 SD Upper initial impressions

[markm]

I'm not sure how Geissele markets these Super Duty set ups, but the name would imply "duty" like L.E. or something as opposed to "Super Match". With an ACOG, I wouldn't be disappointed in the group sizes posted... nor would I be thrilled I guess. We run Pappabear's SD with a really nice NightForce ATACR with a great reticle for shooting groups. I have to think there's a half MOA gain in being able to take a more precise aim. This is based on my eyes... I'm totally happy getting under 2 MOA with the ACOG.

[Hank6046]

With an ACOG, I wouldn't be disappointed in the group sizes posted... nor would I be thrilled I guess.

But this is how I feel, I've shot tighter groups with cheaper 55gr, posted above with the same setup and with everything else I've gotten from Geissele I just expected a better result.

[markm]

I get it. We too have come to expect EVERY barrel to be MOA or so. One thing I noticed with PB's Geissele barrel is that mixing ammo gave it a freakin fit. We shot a bunch of stuff through it includind some ball powder, and one weekend the groups openned up, and the POI walked down 4 inches and right 2 inches. We were like WTF??? So we re-zero the NightForce. Then PB cleaned the barrel and the following weekend, the POI went EXACTLY back to where it was before.. I mean Exactly.

So.. maybe clean the barrel and stick with one flavor of ammo for a re-test???

[Hank6046]

So.. maybe clean the barrel and stick with one flavor of ammo for a re-test???

probably a good idea, I'm also going to test other rifles with the same ammo and the ACOG on top just to see what I can get

[Molon]

I'm not sure how Geissele markets these Super Duty set ups, but the name would imply "duty" like L.E.

This is the claim that geissele makes about the accuracy of their CHF barrels . . .


"The accuracy and reliability of Geissele CHF barrels makes them an ideal choice for a hard use duty weapon, precision tuned competition gun, and everything in between."

...

[markm]

This is the claim that geissele makes about the accuracy of their CHF barrels . . .


"The accuracy and reliability of Geissele CHF barrels makes them an ideal choice for a hard use duty weapon, precision tuned competition gun, and everything in between."

...

Kind of a do-all marketing deal... But based on that, I'd be expecting really good accuracy.

[Hank6046]

So as of today it looks like I was wrong about the accuracy of the Geissele 14.5 Super Duty Upper, in that it can in fact shoot very well.

So I have been running a 4x TA31 Acog with a 509t piggybacked for a little over a year. Previously this was sitting on a DDM4 V7 upper, and while I liked everything about the way that it shot, I didn't like the weight and length of the DD V7 upper with a Warcomp as this put it into the 17"+ length and started to become annoying for barricade drills, thus I switched to the 14.5 Geissele upper.
[IMG]2022-11-26_03-16-36 by Hank Henry, on Flickr[/IMG]

To sum up the previous posts, I have just not been thrilled with the 1.5-2.5MOA I have been getting out of my 14.5 SD upper with the ACOG. It seems like it just will not shoot a consistent group with any types of ammo I have been using.
So today, myself and my very distracted 8yr old decided we would take the following guns out to my local range to test the same match ammo (Federal 69gr Gold Metal Match and Horandy 75gr Match BTHP). The rifles included the following:

BCM 16" BFH ELW upper on a Aero lower w/ a Primary Arms 1-6x LPVO SFP in an ADM Mid Mount
DDM4V7 16" Upper on a ADM Lower with a Larue 2 stage trigger (also used the same PA 1-6x LPVO SFP in an ADM Mid Mount as well as the the ACOG)
PWS 14.5 DI carbine upper on a complete Aero Lower with a Vortex UH-1 Gen2 and 3x magnifier, later I would mount the PA 1-6x for consistency.

Results are as follows with the Federal Gold Medal Match 69gr, please note that these are 3 shot groups because I didn't have enough ammo to do a 5 shot group for every rifle as my go to LGS was closed early on Wednesday due to Thanksgiving.

[IMG]2022-11-26_03-15-29 by Hank Henry, on Flickr[/IMG]
my 16" BCM CHF ELW with Primary Arms 1-6x SFP at approx. 1 inch

[IMG]2022-11-26_03-54-55 by Hank Henry, on Flickr[/IMG]
DDM4V7 16" with Primary Arms 1-6x SFP at just under 1 inch

[IMG]2022-11-26_03-57-37 by Hank Henry, on Flickr[/IMG]
PWS 14.5 with Vortex UH-1 Gen2 and 3x magnifier at just under 2 inches

[IMG]2022-11-26_03-56-22 by Hank Henry, on Flickr[/IMG]
PWS 14.5 with Primary Arms 1-6x SFP at just over 1 inch

[IMG]2022-11-26_03-15-46 by Hank Henry, on Flickr[/IMG]
Geissele 14.5 Super Duty with 4x Acog at right at 2 inches (shot 3 groups that were nearly identical to this)

Finally after realizing how much the Primary Arms 1-6x shrunk the group of my PWS I decided to try it on the 14.5 Geissele, this made a huge difference.

[IMG]2022-11-26_03-16-06 by Hank Henry, on Flickr[/IMG]
My Primary Arms 1-6x SFP scope I believe I paid around $270 (ACSS 5.56/ 308) in ADM Mid Rise 30mm mount (1.62 offset I believe)

[IMG]2022-11-26_03-14-13 by Hank Henry, on Flickr[/IMG]
Geissele 14.5 Super Duty Upper with Primary Arms 1-6x SFP at 3/4 of an inch (Notice that was a 4 shot group and the end of my 69gr Fed Gold Medal Match ammo)

[IMG]2022-11-26_03-14-25 by Hank Henry, on Flickr[/IMG]
Geissele 14.5 Super Duty Upper with Primary Arms 1-6x with 55gr Stand One Armory Reman which shows just under a 1.5 inch group

[IMG]2022-11-26_03-14-57 by Hank Henry, on Flickr[/IMG]
Geissele 14.5 Super Duty Upper with Primary Arms 1-6x with 75gr Hornady Match 3 shot group at 3/4 of an inch

So over all I'm really glad that my Geissele upper can show some "Premium" accuracy after all, and that it is either me, the ACOG or most likely the KRAM mount and ADM mount that seem to be throwing me off, or it is the fact that I am not the 20/20 eye'd 3x Expert I was in the Marines. While I still like the concept of the ACOG and Piggybacked 509T I'm going to take everything apart and locktite everything up again to see if that helps, or if the approximately 850 rds I put down range in this thing finally broke in the barrel (no issues in reliability btw). After everything, I am pretty happy with this and this will probably be my go to AR for the foreseeable future.

[Hank6046]

Hello all,
I have gotten a text from a very good friend pointing out how everything posted above makes me look very dumb this makes me look and I agree, but I remember so many people on here posting about their rifle and the accuracy of their post that I was indeed most likely the error at fault and deliver you my actual results because (1.) I hope to actually push my real world knowledge on everyone, and (2.) I hope to to be accurate in my postings. If the fault is mine, then so be it, but I don't want to falsely claim that my Geissele 14.5 SD upper is in accurate when it is in fact not and that the error is most likely of my own making. I hope that this (M4C) remains a place where the content is transparent and we can all benefit from the lessons learned, and that in this case I was not quite the Scout Sniper wantabe with an Trijicon ACOG as I remember myself over 10 years ago. I think I'll end this thread here on my end unless anyone has any questions for me and the process I went through.

[pag23]

Hello all,
I have gotten a text from a very good friend pointing out how everything posted above makes me look very dumb this makes me look and I agree, but I remember so many people on here posting about their rifle and the accuracy of their post that I was indeed most likely the error at fault and deliver you my actual results because (1.) I hope to actually push my real world knowledge on everyone, and (2.) I hope to to be accurate in my postings. If the fault is mine, then so be it, but I don't want to falsely claim that my Geissele 14.5 SD upper is in accurate when it is in fact not and that the error is most likely of my own making. I hope that this (M4C) remains a place where the content is transparent and we can all benefit from the lessons learned, and that in this case I was not quite the Scout Sniper wantabe with an Trijicon ACOG as I remember myself over 10 years ago. I think I'll end this thread here on my end unless anyone has any questions for me and the process I went through.

I personally think your posts and the comparison info were pretty good. It just shows how different ammo and optics come into play with different uppers.

[ChrisM516]

Hello all,
I have gotten a text from a very good friend pointing out how everything posted above makes me look very dumb this makes me look and I agree, but I remember so many people on here posting about their rifle and the accuracy of their post that I was indeed most likely the error at fault and deliver you my actual results because (1.) I hope to actually push my real world knowledge on everyone, and (2.) I hope to to be accurate in my postings. If the fault is mine, then so be it, but I don't want to falsely claim that my Geissele 14.5 SD upper is in accurate when it is in fact not and that the error is most likely of my own making. I hope that this (M4C) remains a place where the content is transparent and we can all benefit from the lessons learned, and that in this case I was not quite the Scout Sniper wantabe with an Trijicon ACOG as I remember myself over 10 years ago. I think I'll end this thread here on my end unless anyone has any questions for me and the process I went through.

You don't look dumb, you look like you kept an open mind and learned something. I thought it was interesting, anyways.

You'd look dumb if you refused to try anything else out and argued about it.