ZEV OZ-9X Combat for US DOE

[Dan_B]

We already discussed the performance aspect, but the ability to switch grips on the fly is probably very important to them since they alternate between overt and covert escorts. So having one gun that allows the individuals to switch grips for ccw where concealment is priority as opposed to purchase two separate guns seems like a good idea.


The people literally driving around with nuclear components should have the best gear possible. If they tested 7 guns and they all feel this performed the best, I’m refreshed to see they chose it based on that as opposed to what was cheapest.


That is your opinion and the T&E anecdotes don’t support that. In fact that entire premise is based on maintaining annual budget requirements which usually has nothing to do with purchases like these, hence the T&E process.


It could mean weight in terms of balance or compared to heavier pistols tested I guess. Since it was an individual criteria vs technical one, I’m inclined to think the weight category was how it felt in hand or something to that affect.

Rational, factual and well said. Thank you!

[Coal Dragger]

Coal Dragger, there's no need to start dishing out insults. I shoot all the time, but admit that I'm more of a collector than an operator. So what? I'm also a taxpayer that's not interested in having his tax dollars pissed away by the government. Could the difference in cost between that pistol and a standard duty firearm be used by the federal government in a better manner to defend our country? There's no doubt in my mind. Someone had the budget, so they bought cool toys. Failure to spend the money would mean less budget next year.

A pistol is a gun that you take to a gun fight that you're not aware you're going to (or as a backup to another firearm). In other words, it's a compromise. Otherwise, one would avoid the situation or come with a more substantial weapon. The guys that shoot at pistol matches frequently do things to their pistols that they wouldn't in real defensive scenarios. Lighter triggers, trading reliability for accuracy and light pressure (or higher) loads are a few that come to mind. While matches can be good training, they're not real world. What's good for a pistol match isn't necessarily good for defensive carry.

Go run some pistols hard, you’re going to quickly find out what works for you and what doesn’t. Once you do that, and see what a difference a well thought out pistol that’s made for shooters can do for you it will be easier to understand.

If these guys can demonstrate consistently higher scores with the ZEV vs a Glock, and ZEV has a competitive bid that is within the budget why are you so axle wrapped over this?

If you personally tested a bunch of handguns and found one that clearly outperformed the others and was giving you the best results you’ve seen, and you could afford it…. You would probably buy it too.

[Bret]

Go run some pistols hard, you’re going to quickly find out what works for you and what doesn’t. Once you do that, and see what a difference a well thought out pistol that’s made for shooters can do for you it will be easier to understand.

Just because I don't agree with your view about the cost versus benefit doesn't mean that I don't understand about firearm performance. We're allowed to disagree. These are backup weapons, so I'd be really interested to see what their primary weapons are.

If these guys can demonstrate consistently higher scores with the ZEV vs a Glock, and ZEV has a competitive bid that is within the budget why are you so axle wrapped over this?

A higher score is one thing, but how much higher? It would be very interesting to see the actual results. When the awarded pistol costs over twice what a Glock does and there was only one company allowed to bid, it's hard to make the case that it was a competitive bid. They state "Only one responsible source and no other supplies or services will satisfy agency requirements". So these guys have found the one gun manufactured in the world that meets their requirements. Without it we're looking at some sort of nuclear doomsday? Pure BS. I'm not axle wrapped about it. I'm just skeptical as any taxpayer should be. Why are you so axle wrapped about me being skeptical?

If you personally tested a bunch of handguns and found one that clearly outperformed the others and was giving you the best results you’ve seen, and you could afford it…. You would probably buy it too.

I might. If I was spending other people's money, I'd first attempt to quantify the performance increase relative to the cost increase. Do I get twice the performance (2x as reliable, 2x as accurate, etc.)? If not, how much better is it because it still might be worth it, but where do you draw the line? Would a Glock plus an optical sight perform better (for less)? And in case you haven't noticed, we can't afford most of what the federal government does. There's nothing wrong with expecting a real performance justification.

[okie]

It must be nice to have all that taxpayer money to flit away without a care in the world. A 500 dollar G19 is good enough for Delta Force, but not for the DOE's security guards. Dollars to donuts whoever has their checkbook watched John Wick about ten too many times.

[Coal Dragger]

LOL, you think Delta guys are running around with box stock Glocks.

[okie]

LOL, you think Delta guys are running around with box stock Glocks.

Yea pretty much. I mean maybe they put nice sights on them and maybe even an RMR these days, but yea I imagine they're pretty stock.

[1168]

LOL, you think Delta guys are running around with box stock Glocks.

More or less, yes. As are most of SOF. I re-qualed with a G19/RDS/U-boat and a G34/TLR yesterday after breaking my R radius 4-5 weeks ago and it worked out just fine.

None of us running around with Zev pistols. I’m not knocking the choice… I don’t know shit about them. Seems strange, though. Especially the part where they did better in low-light. I don’t see how that is possible.

[okie]

More or less, yes. As are most of SOF. I re-qualed with a G19/RDS/U-boat and a G34/TLR yesterday after breaking my R radius 4-5 weeks ago and it worked out just fine.

None of us running around with Zev pistols. I’m not knocking the choice… I don’t know shit about them. Seems strange, though. Especially the part where they did better in low-light. I don’t see how that is possible.

The one in the pic in the article has a fiber front sight.

[glocktogo]

We could eliminate the IRS pricks all together as far as I'm concerned.

Well we just decided to hire 87,000 more of them so, how's that working out for us?

[Coal Dragger]

More or less, yes. As are most of SOF. I re-qualed with a G19/RDS/U-boat and a G34/TLR yesterday after breaking my R radius 4-5 weeks ago and it worked out just fine.

None of us running around with Zev pistols. I’m not knocking the choice… I don’t know shit about them. Seems strange, though. Especially the part where they did better in low-light. I don’t see how that is possible.

Probably just a factor of the ZEV being easier to shoot well generally increasing scores in a variety of circumstances. The same improved trigger and grip or whatever it is that is making shooters get better results is still there in low light. I wonder if they are using the weapon light for that portion? Oh look the target is lit up and I can shoot it!

That one is a bit nebulous.