ZEV OZ-9X Combat for US DOE

[seb5]

They are the worlds highest trained and best equipped truck drivers in the world. Thier primary training facility is within my jurisdiction and has been for 25 years or so. Over the years I've trained with them and knew several of the instrucotrs. Several of my friends from the military and law enforcement work for them. Many others I know work for them as contractors in various capacities. As an organization they are very low key but have a large footprint in our area. Historically they tend to carry higher end pistols and larger weapons. They also have all the equipment that you could imagine they might need or use if they had to defend or recover stolen nuclear material or actual devices. Many of the contracted instructors come from the various highest speed military units that we have.

[dwhitehorne]

So what does the modular fire control do for you other than allowing you to swap out the grip unit? I've seen no evidence that they make guns perform better. Seems like a solution in search of a problem to me. Not that there's anything particularly bad about it, but I can't see paying anything extra for a gun that has one.

Well I can tell you for me when my department had a motor officer struck in slid down the road on his gun side. The safariland holster saved the slide but the 320 grip and mag were tore up. I was able to replace the grip module and return the gun to the officer instead of processing it for destruction.

Also being a former contracting officer rep, I can say when you put out a solicitation you have to test all qualifying submissions. The pistol that wins the evaluation is usually the one that gets purchased.
I would love to see the statement of work for the solicitation. If it said metal framed or modular pistol that accepted Glock magazines you know what pistol they were looking for and got. David

[glocktogo]

In the history of DOE, how many people have they shot?

[dwhitehorne]

In the history of DOE, how many people have they shot?

Probably about as many people as the USSS while protecting the presidents. DOE does escort all of the nuclear material moved around the county. David

[sidewaysil80]

Well I can tell you for me when my department had a motor officer struck in slid down the road on his gun side. The safariland holster saved the slide but the 320 grip and mag were tore up. I was able to replace the grip module and return the gun to the officer instead of processing it for destruction.

Also being a former contracting officer rep, I can say when you put out a solicitation you have to test all qualifying submissions. The pistol that wins the evaluation is usually the one that gets purchased.
I would love to see the statement of work for the solicitation. If it said metal framed or modular pistol that accepted Glock magazines you know what pistol they were looking for and got. David

As a former cotr can you shed some light on the finance piece? In my very limited experience soliciting gear (fed tac team), anytime it came time for upgrades or extra gear, it was a bunch of hoops to jump through as it was separate/one off funding. T&E was pretty scrutinized with a lot of writing to justify higher priced offerings. That is where my experience stops. Do purchases like that affect or raise the annual/main operating budget of said agency? In other words, does it incentivize picking most expensive?

[dwhitehorne]

My experience with the USPP was similar to the hoops you have to jump through. The estimated total dollar amount drove what paperwork I had to submit to contracting. Purchases of IFAK's or holsters were usually done on a one time basis as needed. Many times with year end funds. I filled out a salient characteristics document with other contracting paperwork. Generally we purchased what the low bidder submitted after I conducted an evaluation checking if the bidder met all of the characteristics. One time we purchased North American Rescue IFAK's another year they were generic GALLS IFAK's. I clearly preferred the NAR product but the GALLS IFAK did meet the characteristics.

With the pistol and rifle contracts I submitted a statement of work lengthy detailing exactly what characteristics I wanted in a weapons system. When I started the request for a weapons evaluation I had to submit what was called "market research" paperwork to get budgeting estimates. The pistol contract solicited in 2015 was for a 5 year contract. Four manufactures responded to the solicitation and only two met all of the characteristics in the statement of work. The pistol manufacturer I had in mind when starting the solicitation process didn't even submit a bid. I selected a committee of officers who test fired the pistols submitted. I took individual qual scores with each weapon and a 25 question evaluation each officer completed and complied that all into one document with a final total for each pistol evaluated. The P320 compact was the top scoring pistol in the evaluation. Since I was conducting the evaluation the contracting officer never allowed me to see the pricing until the contract was signed. At the end of every evaluation I wrote I had to add a boiler plate response like this piece of equipment meets the characteristics of the solicitation and represents the best value for purchase by the Federal Government. In the pistol solicitation we did compare fullsize and compact versions. They were close but the compact P320 came out on top. Sig advised me that they would be producing a carry version. I was able to write up a request in my final evaluation for the soon to be created P320 Carry and that was the pistol purchased.

A example of a silly contracting issue was the Safariland 6360 holsters we purchased with the transition to the P320. I purchased 250 Safariland holsters in 2015 on a sole source contract as Safariland was the only holster company who produced a flashlight holster for the P320 carry at the time. In 2016 I submitted a request for 200 more pistols and was denied the purchase. The contracting office then said I had to submit and salient characteristics memo and conduct and evaluation of different holsters. I argued that all the uniformed officers needed to be issued the exact same holster and it was shot down as a reason for a sole source purchase. So I had to come up with the exact characteristics to ensure my second purchase of holsters exactly matched the first purchase.

I'm guessing with the Zev there was something written in the solicitation specifying exactly what they wanted and probably only a few manufacturers would meet the characteristics. As for the price, the weapons that I was involved in purchasing where hundreds of dollars below retail. The P320 bid came in way under my market research estimate. When the Army M17 contact came out it was over 100 dollars under what we were paying. David

[Alex V]

I have a few OZ9s, Shadow Systems, and of course Glock guns.

the OZ9 is a really flat shooting gun (as all Glocks are). I'd say they shoot flatter than the Glock, they are heavier so a touch softer, and they had a 1911 flat backstrap grip angle if that's a plus for you. Magwell is a win, and the trigger is nicer. Honestly the OZ9 feels absolutely great to me in my hand - they did some nice work on the grip module contouring. In fact I'd say the OZ9 is the flattest shooting non-comped non 2011 9mm gun I've ever shot.

Mine don't run worth a darn with provided Pmags, but that's not just a Zev problem. Mine have run fine so far with real Glock mags.

RDS setup is very nice on them. Dot sits nice and low directly mounted to slide.

OZ9 can be found 25% off pretty easily. Probably the govt version purchased has simpler slide cuts or hopefully no (crap catcher) holes machined in the slide. Bet Zev gave them a great deal just to get on the .mil/LE radar.

Shadow Systems run awfully close for less $ and have more flexibility to fit the user with interchangable backstraps. My shadow systems guns have not burped yet, regardless of magazine used.

Agreed 100%. I love my OZ9c. Mine has feeding issues with Magpul mags as well. doesn't seem to exhibit the same issue with Glock mags.

I am looking to get a Shadow Systems as well, because why not.

[titsonritz]

In the history of DOE, how many people have they shot?

That's classified.

[glocktogo]

My experience with the USPP was similar to the hoops you have to jump through. The estimated total dollar amount drove what paperwork I had to submit to contracting. Purchases of IFAK's or holsters were usually done on a one time basis as needed. Many times with year end funds. I filled out a salient characteristics document with other contracting paperwork. Generally we purchased what the low bidder submitted after I conducted an evaluation checking if the bidder met all of the characteristics. One time we purchased North American Rescue IFAK's another year they were generic GALLS IFAK's. I clearly preferred the NAR product but the GALLS IFAK did meet the characteristics.

With the pistol and rifle contracts I submitted a statement of work lengthy detailing exactly what characteristics I wanted in a weapons system. When I started the request for a weapons evaluation I had to submit what was called "market research" paperwork to get budgeting estimates. The pistol contract solicited in 2015 was for a 5 year contract. Four manufactures responded to the solicitation and only two met all of the characteristics in the statement of work. The pistol manufacturer I had in mind when starting the solicitation process didn't even submit a bid. I selected a committee of officers who test fired the pistols submitted. I took individual qual scores with each weapon and a 25 question evaluation each officer completed and complied that all into one document with a final total for each pistol evaluated. The P320 compact was the top scoring pistol in the evaluation. Since I was conducting the evaluation the contracting officer never allowed me to see the pricing until the contract was signed. At the end of every evaluation I wrote I had to add a boiler plate response like this piece of equipment meets the characteristics of the solicitation and represents the best value for purchase by the Federal Government. In the pistol solicitation we did compare fullsize and compact versions. They were close but the compact P320 came out on top. Sig advised me that they would be producing a carry version. I was able to write up a request in my final evaluation for the soon to be created P320 Carry and that was the pistol purchased.

A example of a silly contracting issue was the Safariland 6360 holsters we purchased with the transition to the P320. I purchased 250 Safariland holsters in 2015 on a sole source contract as Safariland was the only holster company who produced a flashlight holster for the P320 carry at the time. In 2016 I submitted a request for 200 more pistols and was denied the purchase. The contracting office then said I had to submit and salient characteristics memo and conduct and evaluation of different holsters. I argued that all the uniformed officers needed to be issued the exact same holster and it was shot down as a reason for a sole source purchase. So I had to come up with the exact characteristics to ensure my second purchase of holsters exactly matched the first purchase.

I'm guessing with the Zev there was something written in the solicitation specifying exactly what they wanted and probably only a few manufacturers would meet the characteristics. As for the price, the weapons that I was involved in purchasing where hundreds of dollars below retail. The P320 bid came in way under my market research estimate. When the Army M17 contact came out it was over 100 dollars under what we were paying. David

Hey, if DOE got bedazzled Glock clones for $375 a pop, more power to them. But the U.S. Standard Issue taxpayer is getting sick and tired of buying top shelf gear for the feds, that they couldn’t or wouldn’t buy for themselves.

[georgeib]

Agreed 100%. I love my OZ9c. Mine has feeding issues with Magpul mags as well. doesn't seem to exhibit the same issue with Glock mags.

I am looking to get a Shadow Systems as well, because why not.

How does the grip angle compare to a standard Glock? How much closer is it a Sig?